I just had the Mormons (4 of them) over for a 3rd visit and man did I lay siege at some of the foundational strongholds – in the way of kind and polite questioning and discussion. I obliged and watched their ‘faith in Christ’ video which only contained biblical ideals and no ‘book of Mormon ideals’ (I was like any church could of made that video).
Then we started discussing issues. I started in with the 13 articles of faith and how they barely believe differently than any normal church-goer (oh they didn’t like that idea). We then got into praying about the faith as the basis for having faith – which makes no sense whatsoever (call it ‘blind faith’). I said if I pray and get ‘no answer’ then what – or worse yet ‘no’? They said some crap to the point of the satan fooling me and I should be more ‘sincere’ (I was like okay this is going nowhere). We then got into my 20 questions about the Mormon faith and they were toughies.
Some examples are:
(a) Is the Mormon church in danger of ‘apostasy’ (which they claim happened to the original church)? Well I pointed out 3 splinter groups within Utah alone. They agreed it can happen but isn’t currently happening – still it did happen.
(b) Semantics: I touched base on this but if you ever read the book of Mormon you will see a strange thing for people that believe the KJV as the only version they’ll read. Some passages contain what it seems are ‘errors’ – ‘ye’ and ‘you’ in the same passage (or old english and modern english in the same sentence).
(c) Atonement: If Christ died ‘once for all’ then is salvation a ‘free gift’ or not? They admitted straight to my face ‘it is not a free gift’. Okay – so we can earn a place on one of their 3 heavens – cool.
(d) Kingdoms of Glory: Apparently they use 1 Cor 15:41 as a basis for the Celestial, Terrestial, and Telestial kingdoms (from the KJv of course) but in context that makes no sense in the least. Also it is mentioned one time in scriptures then – how is that even reliable? Oh I just had to say something when a verse is betrayed and context isn’t considered. But good news for all of us, we will make into one the heavens kingdoms – which raised an even worse question. How can heaven stand if it is divided within itself? Apparently there is no division – just 3 kingdoms in one (lol).
(e) Trinity: They actually taught me God is 3 seperate people and God has skin and bones (just like us). I guess they all rule a seperate kingdom (lol).
(f) Ethics: If God commanded you to do something unethical – would you obey? Apparently Nephi (see example 3) is told to kill a drunk person (Laban) and chop off his head – and he does. Is this something God might ask of any Mormon? Oh they wanted to chop my head off for that question.
(g) Doctrines and Covenants 132: I questioned if everything in D&C 132 is true – they said yes. Well two things in there are: men becoming gods (v.15-20) and polygamy (v.58-66). I said is polygamy still okay then? They said ‘no’. Then it led to this next point in (h).
(h) Prophets: Can a prophet change the words of the last prophet? They said ‘yes’. Well then god is just double-minded ain’t he? It’s a total logical trap for them – either they say ‘no’ and they agree with polygamy then – or they say ‘yes’ and Smith was lied to by God (I guess) – or maybe a 3rd alternative – the prophets are humans that make mistakes (also against the articles of faith).
(i) Joseph Smith: How many wives did he have? I had 4 Mormons here that could not agree as to the exact number – one said 1, another said 2, and the eldest said he had 1 wife but many other women (on the side I guess)….he was in quite the bind as his wife sat beside him as he asnwered (lol).
(j) Question I will ask next time: If the KJV is the only version to use – why then was it created by an apparent apostate church in the 17th century? Wouldn’t that be corrupt also?
I give it up to http://www.lds4u.com/ for all of the info I have recieved. This dude is getting an e-mail of congrats from me for the great questions (an ex-Mormon and missionary). Maybe I’ll even start a dialogue with him.
As for me, yes they are coming back on Monday for another round – even when I told them the questions only get harder (lol). I’ll attend their services and what not (when I get a chance) – since irregardless of these weird beliefs – I still respect their ethics and lives.