***Comments borrowed from Shane Vanderhart’s blog ‘Christ Alone’.
“sounds like my faith is different from yours” (Starfox)
So if we both claim to follow Christ one of us might not be? Is this country club faith or real faith we are talking about here? I may not fit into your neat little Christian mold – that doesn’t quite make my belief in Christ less than or greater than yours.
Exclusivity – if it is part of the body of the Christ – will also help to define it on some level (this attitude is the key to why there is over 100 denominations and a very divided body of Christ). I have to think Christ wasn’t as exclusive as we want to think – cause he would not teach us this ideal to his body’s very dismay?
Also if Jesus is exlcusive then it stands to reason he is also selective…is Jesus selective regarding who can and can’t be saved?
“because “Jesus professing” doesn’t always mean “Jesus following.”” (Starfox)
I have looked into this idea with a microscope on the term ‘believe’ and I agree with this premise.
“that is through trusting faith in Jesus (the Way) alone to save and keep you saved and repentance of sins while asking forgivness from God the Father.” (Starfox)
(a) Jesus in 14:1 says something kind of strange – ‘believe in God and/(kai) believe also in me’. The word ‘kai’ actually seperates the sentence into believing in 2 identities. Now Jesus clears this up later in the chapter mind you – saying the ideas line up between God and himself – but that first line funny enough shows the term ‘belief’ used not solely of one person.
(b) Jesus is the ‘way’ – I agree – but the strength of your belief is that if I simply believe in Jesus and accept his salvation – then I am saved (or maybe not – since you don’t think this is assured?). To me that kind of shallows out what it truly means to ‘believe’ in someone.
Jesus mentions aspects of belief in John 14 and what this ‘way’ is all about – following his teachings (vs. 15, 21, 23, 24, 26). I think to truly believe (or even love) Jesus is to follow his teachings and that alone is quite enough. Acceptance of his sacrifice is about as important as acceptance of yourself being a sacrifice – since Jesus followed a path and asked us to trod behind him (pick up the cross and follow me idea). I think the teachings of God are the path as taught by Jesus.
(c) You seem to think salvation is not secured – why? Someone can lose their salvation – which you freely admit we have no control over making happen (not via works) – yet we have control over losing it (via works)? This is quite the hopeless jargon to be honest – can’t be quite sure I am going to heaven as much as I am not sure I am going to hell. I am not sure this idea concerning salvation is logical.
“Just because someone claims Jesus is their savior doesn’t mean they are trusting in Him” (Starfox)
True – but how can you be so sure your denomination is not one of the one’s with the fallacy of the 100’s? You say salvation is not by works – just so we don’t boast about it right – yet in your calculation of accepting Jesus’ sacrifice we see works in action. You have to say the prayer and accept or the sacrifice is no good – counts for nothing – no matter how much Jesus loved someone.
Yet now we see you saying you cannot lose your salvation (He paid the FULL price for all sins past, present, and future) – since this is consistent with a more faith based idea. Problem there simply is it chalks faith up to a one time event – we accept – and then nothing else matters afterwards (can’t be lost). So basically we have to be involved in the salvation event irregardless – and for you – that is via accepting the sacrifice (something we do to earn it).
Since you seem to have a good judicial hold of this whole scenario of salvation – how many do you predict of the 6 billion on the planet are going to hell in each generation?
“He was the sacrifce for our sins and therefore made Himself the Way to God.” (Starfox)
So if I simply follow the formula to salvation I am saved: I just say the prayer – accept the sacrifice of the Christ – and then I recieve the just reward of heaven? Since it all resides in one person’s actions and requires nothing of me – neat…and since there is nothing keeping me bound to the faith – cannot lose something I did not work to attain – read the next paragraph.
Thankfully I have done this back in 1993 (so either way I am covered) and I am not so doctrinally boxed in to believe this is even remotely accurate and nor do I have to. The logic is full of holes and requires nothing of us in regards to following Jesus’ teachings – which mind you – in John are proof we actually love God. So by the salvation calculation one could be on his way to heaven and not even love God…now that is too priceless.
To me, the idea of following Christ is a lot more deeper than some salvation calculation which lets one pretend they follow Jesus via association. What really needs to be associated with the Christ is ‘the way’ we live our daily lives.