Taken from Naked Pastor’s ‘cartoon: rage against the machine‘ blogpost…go take a gander.
“I noticed some of the cowards slinking around–what are they afraid of. I doubt if there are any weapons inside. Though, if I got wind that the savages were coming for my folks, my .357 mag. may suddenly appear.” (Fishon)
Time to explain this in more depth so as to not confuse anyone – why I said what I said to fishon – which is a freedom of expression issue – but also a ‘barrier over-stepping’ issue.
“So you won’t allow me my angle, and my angle is rude? Or is it that there are only 2 angle to view it?” (Fishon)
Have your angle – there are many ways to view this piece – as I pointed out with a comment about MrsQ’s views (which were a few). However, calling your use of a few words rude was right on the money – and I will explain that in more depth.
“I would think that would be only if you were in the crowd that was attacking. Of course, if I was in the building, I would consider you quite rude” (Fishon)
The painting was not the problem fishon – your use of certain terms was.
“but I use the word ’savages’ and you become a critic” (Fishon)
Yes. For me, it’s a matter of some words never being used again in the ‘us and them’ context. Now you may have just meant some generic use of the term ’savages’ – of those attacking the building (granted). What you may not know is First Nations communities way back when were actually called this term in history books and legislature as derogatory terms to demean their humanity. It would be similar to calling someone a ‘nigger’ in these days – a word still with some original meaning – but we all prefer to drop the term out of respect for a race’s humanity and equality.
Problem being – before I even read your comment I could see someone going to the term ’savages’ or something similar – granted I figured it would be someone from my culture calling it out and explaining the problem with this painting when viewed only literally. Then I read your comments – also coming from a more literal reading of the painting and it basically disturebed me…there was a scene replete with the word ’savage’ tagged upon it.
“(a) savages—–Perfectly good word” (Fishon)
Actually, I don’t find it a useful word at all – it’s been used in such derogatory terms against my own people group and many other indigenous cultures it’s better left out of human communication.
“By the way, if you are against violence, whey not take the artist to task for drawing a cartoon full of intended violence? I threaten to ‘PROTECT’ my congregation and you accuse me of ‘advocating’ violence. He is the one depicting violence, not me.” (Fishon)
I did address David about the possible scenario’s a First Nations person could pull from that piece – he has the right the make it and print it – but I have forewarned him about the sensibilities this would have in First Nations communities – this can be read in such a way as to insult a culture. He wrote back and let me know his side of the story.
Your advocation of violence was more literal in scope than the actual picture – with the use of words like mag .357 (an actual weapon in use today). Then it was coupled with an old idea from centuries past (savages) – I read that and I can’t help but have questions about the wording being used. I would suggest you read some of the history of the First Nations peoples in America and Canada and the terms – and tactics – used against them – and you will find sentences just like the one you wrote about the ‘defense of that church’ in the picture – with the Indians being called ’savages’. It’s a sensitivity thing I think.
“You talk a big talk, my friend, but you don’t walk the walk” (Fishon)
That’s right – blame me for the words you used…then call me close minded to boot. The problem is I have studied this issue intensely and I am from a First Nations background – my conclusion is that not all freedom of expression is quite freeing.
Because I have problem with your wording I am close minded – I never said I was open to everything – but that I am open minded. I am so open minded I am going to wait to hear your response on this one and give you the benefit of the doubt – that you do not think this way in general but it was a comment made without the knowledge of the historical background my generations had to face in the arguement with colonialism.
“I do believe I made it pretty apparent as to who the “savages” might be” (Fishon)
I re-read it again and again to make sure I wasn’t missing a thing – the savages were those attacking the church apparently – and I think you are pretty culturally non-bias in the rhetoric. I just don’t think you know how that term sounds in ‘my ears’ as someone dealing with the past haunts of colonialism and its wasting on my community – and the total depravity of the term ’savage’ and how it was used to imprison 100,000’s children in schools without consent or choice on the issue. Which made these kids into ‘less than humans’ and they were treated that way – and my parents were part of that generation.
Multitude’s of scars still exist in First Nations communities because that term was used against us – as an excuse for the treatment of a cultural group from the dominant group to do whatever they pleased. I think I have been given the right to question when the term ’savage’ appears – namely in the context of this picture. Now if that’s close minded – I am alright with that – I’d rather address issues of ignorance than ignore them and hope they go away.
But if I am wrong – I would ask anyone here – do you still use the word ‘nigger’ or is that just not the word of choice to demean another group anymore? If we can drop that from the vocabulary then we can just as easily drop ’savage’.
“You are just as judgemental as I am. Don’t you just hate that!” (Fishon)
I never said I wasn’t judgemental – I admitted all of us are – including myself. That is why each of us can look at that painting and make some creative assumption about it – we use our skills of judging it.
However, in this case I think I am using my judgment of the wording used by you in a very ‘just way’. I have addressed the problem with the word, explained it, and now am asking you to understand it…beyond that there is little more I can do. But that’s ‘judging in love’…asking you to understand that I know a whole group of people that will be offended by the term ’savage’ and asking you to check your sensibilities on the issue. If you don’t like what I am saying then ‘explain why’ – as any good court would allow on any subject presented before it. But if the arguement makes sense – then all I am asking is you ‘drop the use of the term savage’.
Am I wrong – no. I am not doing this for me per se – that comment offended me only a little bit – but I am doing it for my community – who if they could read that comment in the context of that pic might have more problems than I. I am trying to voice their opinion so this never has to happen to their faces and people know better than to use that term around a First Nation person/community.