Taken from Mind over Matters – a Naked Pastor Production.
“And if by chance it was a wacko, that does nothing to future your rage against the Church of Jesus.” (Fishon)
He is a wacko – which makes him not a good example (I admit) – but he was one portion of the example – an extreme point. Most people in churches are not like Fred obviously – likely not even 1% – but some have those extreme feelings so let’s not forget about them.
As for ‘rage’ or ‘anger’ – I am not mad at the church whatsoever. I am stating what I see as the obvious holes in community in the church and that’s about it. And yes, it is from my perspective alone…people do not need to agree with me – but if I am making sense on some level – it would also be wise to not dismiss it altogether.
“I am guessing you have not even visited one percent of the churches in North America. Please tell me if I am wrong. You make such a bold statement—-when imperical evidence do you base your statement on?????????” (Fishon)
You are right – I haven’t. But I have visited a lot of churches in my time – and if a lot of churches keep on looking the same from province to province and state to state – then I can only base my conclusions on what I know and see.
I find the same services, same messages, same structures, and same concerns. And although I may not have visited 1% of all the churches in Canada or America – what more should I need to know – even surveys only hit a sector of society and not the whole thing? I should go on what I have seen from churches – this is honest and real – beyond that i can guess and hope for the best – but that’s all supposition.
“Don’t hear me to say the church should not help in some of the areas you suggest, but it seems as if you are calling for the Church to be a huge social service organization” (Fishon)
I am only asking they check their focus – are they about the preaching the words or living them? The church is a lot of talk in my opinion (and it’s good talk mind you) – I even think it is a culture of talk in some ways. My concern is the church has left some of the basic ideas of caring for humanity behind – both within their community and outside it. That’s a fear of mine I see in churches – they perceive they do the works of God – when Matt 25 (sheep and the goats) leaves them open to sharp criticism.
Now I know some churches do get out there and do a lot of good – Fishon I have never denied that. I am making the hypotheses that most churches do not focus on this…and the hypotheses next to nil do these types of things for their local community to build the community in a solid body. I am open to being proven wrong on the whole issue – but I have not seen one myself. I have seen nice churches and all that – some that function without community in my opinion and yet give a lot – and others that give nothing but have community. It’s just rare to see a chuch community that is both a close knit community and also very giving.
If there is a few – show me their websites – I will go and visist (via the web) and ask questions.
“However, a little googling will find for you stats on what churches in America give to the poor, the hurting, the unfortunate, not only in America, but to the World. Find something else to complain about.” (Fishon)
My biggest complaint is concerning that exact thing – we have money to give to the rest of the planet but we can forget our own backyards. That’s a the problem I have with it also. It’s not like America(s) do not have sick, poor, needy, depressed, elderly, widows, single mothers, etc…that need as much or more help. Yet they get the short end of the stick in my opinion – which churches care about other countries on the planet except their own.
But the biggest complaint I ever here is – what exactly are churches doing that is productive then? The message is cool – but without actual works it is dead. One could make the argument the church is in fact also dead (in some regards). What has the church done for societal ills in the past 50 years exactly? Things have been gettig worse and not better – and for as ‘good news’ as the church proclaims – what ’s so good about the change they are not making in overall society?
Think about it – there are at least 250 churches or more in a big city. They are all over the place from the suburbs to the inner city – and can meet the moral and societal needs of many people in that city. To me, it looks a great web of churches that can change society for the better – and help make their city a much better place. Ideally, in 50 years a huge change in the morality of society should have taken pace.
However, this is not the case. Crime rates rose, prisons got filled, violent crime rose, divorce rates sky-rocketed, abortion became an accepted practice, single mothers have risen astronomically, poverty is something that went from small to problematic, etc. Society, for as much churches it has within it, has not gotten better but worse – and by far – worse. So, if the church is so grand and awesome an institution that is represeting God and all the glory therein – why exactly is society getting worse and not better?