The ‘No Fly’ Zone

Some inner recess of their brain tells them that the doubt zone is a no-fly zone, avoid at all costs, here there be demons” (Temaskian)

 I think, at least what I find, is dealing with issues of the like or even bigger ones (ie: the trinity or atonement) Christians can exhibit a real fear of ‘asking’ because it might change their precious faith and land them on the side they see as ‘against God’. Nothing worse than to be found ‘fighting against God’ in their opinions.

That Pat dude really hit the nail on the head with regards to this – the church is about serving God but it seems to be leaning viciously to the angle of being ’self serving’…to uphold the church. Is the church really about enlightenment might be the best question to ask – about the spirit of ‘truth’ they claim it is?

I am having some serious doubts this is the case when I blog and talk with orthodox Christians. Anything that goes against the orthodox views (as listed by various creeds some 1600 years ago) are labeled as ‘unreasonable’…and this is how they view being ‘truthful’. Truth to them may very well be obedience and not the search for answers to their tougher questions.

It is in this sense it is all ’self serving’ and not very open to debate or discussion on such issues (ie: anything orthodox). You can’t question the virgin birth (as crazy as an idea as it might seem to some) because it’s an orthodox viewpoint…meaning going away from that means you also move outside the Christian circle of acceptance – and might be on the side that is against God.

You call it trapped…I might tend to agree the more I debate with the orthodox position and see this idea of obedience as more important than ’seeking the truth’. What is to be sought anyways – they have all the answers now.

***Comment first aired at Temaskians blog ‘The Uncertainty of Christianity’

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51 thoughts on “The ‘No Fly’ Zone

  1. “Truth to them may very well be obedience and not the search for answers to their tougher questions.”

    This seems to stike at the very heart of the issue.

  2. and this is the whole reason i want to become a pastor! we need a sense of history, yes, and to honor tradition… gotcha. but we gotta look at the bad our tradition has done. we have to reinterpret the tradition in light of new findings as well as update it for the context/situation/generational mindset we find ourselves in.

  3. That doesn’t seem like a very good reason to be the whole reason why you would be a pastor. But who am I to say, I’m just an atheist.

    But I’ll say it anyway. lol.

    What is the reason for having a pastor? Is it biblically mandated? Are most christians so sheepish that they need a pastor? Or do they need someone to lord it over them like the heathen do? What is the whole raison d’être for a pastor? You need doctors to tend to the sick, you need a pilot to drive the plane, but what are pastors for?

    Surely the whole reason for a pastor cannot be to reinterpret traditions?!

  4. Pastors are to shepherd the believers in their faith, that they not lose it. To deliver God’s Word of Law and His Word of promise (the gospel), and to make sure the Sacraments are administered in accordance with that gospel.

  5. it’s not the only reason, Temaskian, but it’s a big part of it. we are all working with structures, methods, and lens to interpret what is going on around us. pastors are there to guide, empower, and encourage ppl to think ethically and act morally in light of a certain tradition.

    connect to one another, help the oppressed, work for something larger than the individual; that’s what pastors can do IMO.

  6. “pastors are there to guide, empower, and encourage ppl to think ethically and act morally in light of a certain tradition” (Luke)

    It’s the tradition part that bothers me – as for helping people discover the best about themselves – I applaude that effort. But I have to wonder how much the system/tradition will allow before you’re going too far in this process. Plus if we serve tradition’s concepts are we walking away from God’s? Tradition is very land based I find – has some cultural concepts to it from the country it is based in…I wonder if tradition contains bias?

    Reason I ask is because many Christians hopped on board when Bush went to war with Afghanistan…then Iraq. I asked myself the whole time…where is this idea of violence in our teachings? I admit the gov’t needs to protect it’s citizens – but this doesn’t seem to be the case with Iraq (which was tapped on for no good reason). I asked a lot of questions about the Christian faith at that time – and I think our faith followed cultural norms (tradition) versus a Christian ideology.

    I wonder how often this has happened in Christian history as we do down the line – all the way to those creeds and prior. Have Christians accepted norm within the cultures they thrived in…like in Rome? Cause they do it in America, Britain, and Canada under such acceptance as a top religious ideology. In fact they write and re-write the rule in such circumstances – reformation is a great example of this…or even the sprouting of Morminism. So what tradition is exactly being kept?

    It’s one of the reasons I don’t have faith in the system of institutional religion…as much as I admire the people that come from the institution…I find it flawed and self-serving. Steve mentioned the pastor is to ‘sheperd’ the flock…nice analogy but we define what ‘sheperding’ is and who can be ‘sheep’. In fact, I am not sure how connected God is to the whole process outside of prayer and some Sunday worship…tradition has defineable rules that cannot be broken…the rules are equal to God.

  7. Society,

    Do you think that we Christians ought check our brains at the church door?

    No where in scripture does it tell us not to protect our neighbors from thoise that would harm them.

    If anything, we are supposed to risk our own lives for their protection.

    If Christians all took an anti-violence stand, we would never have survived WWII.

    There are millions of people who want to do us in the the regions you mentioned. Why would we let them set up shop there again as they did in Afghanistan during the time of 9/11?

    Violence can be a good thing if it keeps evil at bay.

  8. “No where in scripture does it tell us not to protect our neighbors from thoise that would harm them. If anything, we are supposed to risk our own lives for their protection.” (Steve)

    And you knock Muslims for this ideology meanwhile – you hold it also? You knock jihad (struggle) and yet approve armed conflict…hypocritical or not?

    I think you think like an American on this idea – a Christian second. You see I am not an American and need to make no justifications for what happened with Iraq or Afghanistan. Up here, we were pretty split on Canada even going to Afghanistan outside of a ‘peace making’ role. I for one did not agree one iota. To me, Iraq was absolutely unjustified and Afghanistan was provoked (so it made sense for that war).

    “If Christians all took an anti-violence stand, we would never have survived WWII” (Steve)

    Have you read your scriptures? Is it okay for a German Christian to fight in the Nazi army? How about a Russian Christian joining the Russian communist army? Maybe a Cuban Christian can join Castro’s army? Would it be okay for Peter to fight in Jewish resistance effort against Rome in AD70? How about Paul joining the Roman army to help kill Peter? Questions abound on this idea.

    As a Christian, in some ways, I am not here to defend my country or my culture – but to follow the teachings of Jesus…correct? Where does Jesus, Paul, Peter, James, or John teach on the correct use of violence within the Christian movement? Where can I carry gun to protect myself or a sword to slay my enemy? Find me those passages…one from each writer.

    “Violence can be a good thing if it keeps evil at bay” (Steve)

    I disagree, violence is never as noble as one thinks. Ever kill a man Steve? Ever torture someone? Ever stab someone? How’s about beat someone into the concrete? Ever fire bomb a home? I fail to see the aspect of human love being achieved in any one of those scenarios? There is nothing good about war – ask veterans.

    War is an unneccesary evil that human gov’t’s have to do. I am tossed up on the idea to be perfectly honest. I am all about Jesus’ aspects of peace – he made peace with humanity type thing. I have a tough time finding the justification to even fight for the army – but it may be allowable…knowing that ‘he who lives by the sword, also dies by the sword’ (acceptance of risk involved). So I can say if someone wants to fight for their ‘country’ that is what they are doing – this is in no defense for Christianity.

  9. Moral reletivism?

    As long as you believe that America or the West is equal to the Islamists, than you will believe as you do.

    Yes, there are good (not perfect) guys and bad guys in this world.

    Sitting back and waiting and doing nothing is what helped to get 100 million people killeed in WWII.

    We certainly see the world differently, Society.

    I suspect you and I will never agree on this one.

    And that is ok.

    I much prefer clarity to agreement.

  10. “Moral Relativism?” (Steve)

    “Moral relativists hold that no universal standard exists by which to assess an ethical proposition’s truth” (Wikipedia)

    You’re a moral relativist on the issue of war? You think America is ‘better’ than the Middle East? Somewhere in here you must think Judeo-Christian values are better than the rest of the worlds values…which means we should produce better people (an argument you did not agree with me on). But it doesn’t apparently. So explain to me how you can be morally reletaivist on the issue of war – which is life and death of real people – when you think our values are not that great anyways?

    “Sitting back and waiting and doing nothing is what helped to get 100 million people killeed in WWII.” (Steve)

    No, Germany being a bunch of militaristic nut jobs with no human decency is what got a 100 million people killed…don’t blame the world for it’s inaction for Germany’s wilfull sins of genocide and war. Britain never sat back – they were directly involved when France was attacked. The West sat out – and had their citizens knew about the holocaust I doubt that would of been the case.

    “I much prefer clarity to agreement” (Steve)

    Clarity? Your logically inconsistent and seem not to care. Holding a position of moral relativism is clarity? What ever happened to universal/absolute truths and all that mumbo jumbo? If you hold to a position of moral relitivism – them in my personal opinion – you cannot hold to absolutes…since you pose none on this arguement.

    Whereas, I admit people can join the army – but is not the standard given by God in the NT…it’s just not there and never will be there. However, I think exceptions can be made to the ‘law/teaching’ as long as the reason is a very justified one and is seen as the exception – not the norm.

    In the case of Afghanistan – that seemed justified (America was attacked). At this point if a person wants to take up the idiom ‘live by the sword – die by the sword’ since the gov’t issued a statement of ‘war’…they have this right…but they are defending America – not the kingdom of God (it needs no defense). They also accept the other 1/2 of that idiom – ‘die by the sword’ as possible outcomes for their path. Is it noble? It seems noble to me to defend your country from further attacks…

  11. “In fact they write and re-write the rule in such circumstances – reformation is a great example of this…or even the sprouting of Morminism. So what tradition is exactly being kept?” -SVS

    Jay Bird, these are something i struggle with constantly. i think the congregationalist model is the best one as it is contextual, localized, and bottom up management instead of the top down. however, in each cultural group, there has to be standards and structures, ethics and etiquette. each of these, we must note, is going to be culturally bound because we can’t get outside of our own experience and culture. just as Steve keeps blame’n Islam for everything, while not seeing how his own culture does the same stuff in different ways.

    there are universal norms, but how each one is presented will look different depending on culture. does that mean i’m a cultural relativist? nope! i’m culturally relational! we have to be! yet we have to be flexible with our systems and culture and realize it isn’t universal as it wouldn’t work everywhere.

    here the church comes in to help unify distinct local cultures without “white-washing’ them. the church can help ppl interact with others, explore beliefs and learn new ways of doing, demarcate life-milestones, establish cope’n mechanisms and grief rituals, as well as giving them a wider network beyond their family. i think the institutional church can be a wonderful thing if we realize it for what it is… our own localized path through life and towards the divine.

  12. i think the institutional church can be a wonderful thing if we realize it for what it is… our own localized path through life and towards the divine. – Luke

    I admire your desire to be a pastor, hopefully you will do well. Not sure if you really want to climb into that box. Free thinkers need freedom.

    “….if we realize it for what it is….,” this is a wise statement. Eyes do need to be open to what the church is.

  13. “Free thinkers need freedom.”

    haha… and also free thinkers need to realize that they are bound by culture, their experience, and assumptions. we are not free. we are not individuals… we are inter-viduals. connected in more ways we can imagine. 😉

    rawk on just1!

  14. Do you think that we Christians ought check our brains at the church door?(Steve)

    I dont think you should, but it seems many do.

    Societyvs(Jason)

    The west didnt sit out, the americans did. We were in from 39, the yanks didnt get in until 41.

    Steve

    Islam is not the problem. Radical Islam is. Just like radical Christianity. Unfortunately much of your rhetoric borders very closely to being radical.

  15. “The west didnt sit out, the americans did. We were in from 39, the yanks didnt get in until 41” (T4T)

    Well I still have to watch the whole documentary on the war – I have a 9 part series saved called Apocalypse something or other that examines the war in depth. My facts may be a little off.

  16. We should have been there (WWII) much earlier.

    Islam is radical. Read the book.

    Trouble is that millions are reading the book (Quran).

    If 10% follow that book, then we’ve got amjor problems. And we do.

    My rhetoric isn’t merdering people by the bushel…but Muslims are.

    We had better wake up.

  17. My rhetoric isn’t merdering people by the bushel…but Muslims are(Steve)

    Tell you what steve, Im a moderate muslim living in Iraq. Im poor, uneducated and I love my family and friends. I love G-d as I know him. He is Allah. The bombs that destroy my village are not from my Muslim brothers but from the “Loving Christians” who want to bring democracy to the area(or take our oil). Im not sure which one it is. All I know is, my children die and I have hurt know one. I still want peace, there was much more peace before, but since the americans(christians) came to my country all we have had is war. Do you love me as one of G-ds children or do you want me dead too?

  18. The solutions will have to come from within Islam. But they are not happening. There is no reform movement of any significance.

    The Islamists in Iraq rip off little girl’s faces with piano wire. They kill them for voting.

    The Iraqi people are relatively free now. They can speak out against the government, vote, demonstrate, etc.

    The Islamists are the trouble makers over there. We ought not let them takeover, lest we end up with what was in Afghanistan before the U.S. kicked out the Taliban.

    Look up how the Taliban treats women, non-Muslims, and anyone who disagrees with them.

    Now, with a weak President (Obama) it looks as if the Taliban may win.

    This is a terrible blow to freedom in that region and for the whole world.

  19. Oh brother, Steve – you love to cry wolf and then offer up the most craziest of crazies from certain Islamic regions. You are aware there are 2 billion Muslims on this planet and not every one of them is radically violent like that right?

    I mean, if this was not a religion of some semblance or peace – then how come I have a friend who converted and became a great family man and generally decent dude? Or should I bide my time and wait to see when this ‘evilness’ appears?

  20. If it’s only 5% that want to kill us…isn’t that enough?

    I’ve sent you quotes out of that book before.

    Those Imams use those quotes to incite jihad and murder.

    Good for your friend. maybe your friend will have the courage to speak out against the jihadists when they commit their atrocities.

    But I doubt it. The good Muslims are afraid, also.

    So who does that leave to fight those Muslims who want to dominate the world?

  21. “So who does that leave to fight those Muslims who want to dominate the world?”

    apparently Christians like yourself, who want to dominate the world.

  22. “So who does that leave to fight those Muslims who want to dominate the world?” (Steve)

    I am taking a wild guess me and you? The Triune God? America? Other Muslims? Obama? The Press? Britain? China? Hollywood?

    I don’t know – I just know I don’t hate Muslims in Canada. I don’t like those stories happening in Muslim countries as much as you – but what can we do? The best we can do is discuss this with our Muslim neighbors and find out what is happening and why – and what they think? Like you say – change has to come from within – some pressure from outside is nice also – but in the end…the Muslim communities need to address these things.

  23. What is with you people?

    Christians, dominate the world? Fat chance…and our Holy Bible does not say that, and especially forbids us to subjugate people as the Quran says.

  24. Luke

    Steve doesnt want to dominate, he just wants to Hate the ones who dont think like him. Thats ok though, when the muslims try to take over at least he will defend me. 😉

  25. “and our Holy Bible does not say that, ”

    and yet we’re in Iraq under false pretenses by a “strong and Christian president” who got us in there. If bush reads the bible everyday, like he says he does, why then are we in there and why would he use a historically loaded term like “crusade” when describing what he planned to do?

    as for a “weak” president… by what standard? don’t you know that the world’s idea of strength and God’s idea are opposites? if not check out Paul’s writings and the gospels.. esp towards the end 😉

  26. No it doesn’t.

    What copy of the New Testament are you reading?

    We are not to conquer by the sword and subjugate.

    Paul never told Christians to murder.

    Give me a major break.

    Sheesh.

  27. “We are not to conquer by the sword and subjugate. Paul never told Christians to murder.” (Steve)

    Wait…your a Christian now when it comes to violence? I believe this was exactly my point earlier in these posts about the scriptures:

    “As a Christian, in some ways, I am not here to defend my country or my culture – but to follow the teachings of Jesus…correct? Where does Jesus, Paul, Peter, James, or John teach on the correct use of violence within the Christian movement?” (SVS)

    Meanwhile, you hold to the value it is okay to do so against the Muslims hordes of the world – but now you back-pedal from that standpoint to say ‘We are not to conquer by the sword and subjugate. Paul never told Christians to murder”…I knew that. You know that. Why the logical inconsistency on violence?

    Well what is it, violence is not taught by the scriptures or it is?

  28. Self defense. Keeping others for killing others and enslaving others(Steve)

    So in other words, if you find a reason in any country that shows others being killed or enslaved then its ok for a Christian army to go in there and kill? That sure does seem like it could be a lot of places in the world. Hmmm, Iraq, Afghanistan, Bosnia, Vietnam, Korea, Kuwait, Somalia, Lebanon………….the list sure keeps getting longer. No wonder some get confused about Crusades.

  29. “Self defense. Keeping others from killing others and enslaving others” (Steve)

    Self defense is a very slippery slope – and that is defintively allowed in Islam (I have even read the passage). But show me where it is allowed in Christianity – passages? I like the idea of self defense – I just want to see where it is found and taught by Jesus or his disciples?

    What if the other side claims ‘self defense’ as their argument? Like in Iraq? Should we ignore their claim to self defense because ours matters more?

    First just give me a few scriptures so I can believe and follow the idea as it is prescribed. I think that is fair.

  30. The jihadists would be cracking up reading these comments.

    We don’t stand a chance against them with ideas such as have been expressed here.

    It’s as good as over.

  31. “We don’t stand a chance against them with ideas such as have been expressed here” (Steve)

    We can always do what they do – live by their ideology if we are so scared our own isn’t enough.

  32. “We can always do what they do – live by their ideology if we are so scared our own isn’t enough.”

    Go live with the Taliban for awhile and get a sneak preview.

  33. “No it doesn’t.”

    hey. read the comment. you’ve gone into polemic over-drive and are now just re-acting.

    the comment in question (#28) was to show that the NT is nonviolent yet you called Obama a weak president. so i asked if a “strong” president is better… esp. a strong “Christian” president like G.W. Bush supposedly is and who claims to read the bible every day yet lied to “crusade” us into war. which is better? and by what standards are you defining strength?

  34. All of the Dems. and even Bill Clinton thought the same thing as Bush.

    Besides, Iraq had already used WMD on it’s own people (the Kurds). That is a documented fact.

    Strength isn’t being an appeaser like Neville Chamberlain. It is getty ready for war.

    That’s it for me… for tonight anyway.

  35. “Go live with the Taliban for awhile and get a sneak preview” (Steve)

    Ha ha – oh man now that is classic.

    I was thinking about this – let’s take this self defense thing into reality – on a real level.

    I had a friend one time when we was teenagers who got beat up by 5 people – and the knock out punch that put him in the hospital not knowing he got there was a 9 iron to the skull. He had some serious stitches over his eye and looked in real bad shape when he got and out and came back to church. Needless to say me and all his bro’s were not happy and we knew who did it (hood is prety small). We wanted to go and get some serious revenge on these boneheads…should of we?

    On another occasion I had a friend who was out and about and ended up at this bar by my house. Apparently he was running from a crew of people – who had already curb stomped him and one brother caught up with him – stabbed him 3 times – in my yard (i was sleeping apparently). Woke up in the morning and my buddy’s shoes were on the lawn. Should of we went out and got those guys that did that to him?

    I mean, Steve, the more violence one see’s the more one realizes that ideology doesn’t work. Hell yeah we could of got some serious revenge – we had the goods on these guys – in both cases. Could of just set them up and laid the boots to whole bunch of those groups…believe me – people were angry enough to want to do this at the time. But both times calmer heads prevailed and I was instrumental in both cases of burying that violent crap. But hey, if we lived by the idea of ‘self defense’ we could of just got ours.

    I think you don’t see a lot of violence Steve – in your neighborhood. I don’t need to see the Taliban I grew up in a violent neighborhood (which was the murder capital per capital in Canada for a few years). And I realize violence just keeps going on until someone gets killed or seriously hurt. Whereas the teachings of Jesus are about peace and making peace with my enemies…until there are none left. That’s the way I do.

    But if you feel your hate is going to solve that problem – in real life – then live it out – forget the Taliban – we can do this locally. But what your proposing would never come out of a church’s mouth – not even in the hood amongst real violent activity. No, we were taught peace and peace seemed to work…did for me anyways.

  36. Evil is a good thing to hate.

    You ought to try it sometime.

    It helps to keep it (evil) at bay.

    I dare say that if someone were threatening your family and you knew they would make good on their threats, you would do what you could to stop them.

    Maybe not.

    I would.

  37. Evil is a good thing to hate.(Steve)

    Here’s the thing steve, hate is evil. Jesus was trying to teach people how to love and not hate. You seem to have missed that class.

  38. TfT,

    That’s a load of horse dung.

    God Himself hates evil. But since you don’t have any idea what’s in the Bible, you proably don’t know that, or don’t care.

    It’s ok for you not to care. But I do,

    Ciao!

  39. Ah thats right Stevo…..God knows lots about Evil, after all he created it. Bible class.

    Isaiah 45:7

    I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create EVIL: I the LORD do all these things.

  40. This might really rock your boat, Maybe Jesus wasnt really God but rather a very enlightened human being who knew that there was too much Hate in his world. He led by example but unfortunately too many people missed the class. Present company included.

  41. “Evil is a good thing to hate” (Steve)

    You don’t seem to get it – what does it mean to ‘hate’ evil? How do you see this? For me, if I hate something I want nothing to do with it and seek to change that aspect wherever I can (solution to the problem). Now I think God might hate evil – but what exactly do you think God is doing about it or wants you to do about it? You keep saying ‘God hates evil, God hates evil’ but that doesn’t mean anything…so explain what that means so we can be clear on that.

    “I dare say that if someone were threatening your family and you knew they would make good on their threats, you would do what you could to stop them” (Steve)

    Funny situation actually – this has happened to me. I stood in the way of the perp and lived up to my values not to act out in violence. In the end – after standing my ground – the person gave in and we talked and worked things out. I didn’t beat hate with hate – could of pulverized the dude – I did what I think what God would of done…I used love and dialogue versus power. Sometimes the strongest thing in a situation isn’t the power of another – but that still small voice.

  42. “I dare say that if someone were threatening your family and you knew they would make good on their threats, you would do what you could to stop them” (Steve)

    I will also let you know I have broken up about 30 to 40 fights in my day – some in the streets and some in other scenarios (sports or whatever). I’ll tell you – in some of those cases a weapon was pulled – but in all those cases you put yourself at personal risk to be hurt…but I know I did the right thing.

    Not everything is solved with violent means – in all those fights I broke up – I stopped many violent situations from esclating to way worse scenarios…and I did it by playing peacemaker – not taking sides (even though in some of these someone was easily in the wrong) or reacting in violence for violence.

    But this is what I mean by people who support such ideas of violence for violence – they probably aren’t that touched by violence in their personal surroundings or lives. People that live amongst violence on an almost daily basis actually begin to fear violence and hate it. These are the same people when it is all said and done will likely come on here and tell ya violence for violence, in their personal experiences, changed nothing.

  43. True evil must be confronted. As with you, sometimes it will back down.

    If they had attacked your family, you would have defended your family.

    Talking to Hitler did not work. Talking to Admenijad (sp?) will not work.

    Sometimes violence must be used.

    Jesus told the disciples to sell their cloakes and buy swords.

    He also said that those who live by the sword, die by the sword.

    Have it and only use it if your neighbor is threatened.

  44. “Sometimes violence must be used” (Steve)

    I think it has to be seen as the exception to the norm (norm would be every peaceful avenue) and also as a last ditch effort – something not to be approached lightly nor used often.

    “Jesus told the disciples to sell their cloakes and buy swords” (Steve)

    In context that passage is not an advocation for violence – but rather is Jesus fulfilling a prophecy by being numbered with the sinners. That passage has nothing to do with the advocation of violence…just thought I’d point that out. Since in this same mess Peter cuts some guards (their enemy) ear off…Jesus heals the person and pretty much tells Peter to ‘dummy up’.

    “He also said that those who live by the sword, die by the sword” (Steve)

    This is not an advocation for violent repraisal either – but Jesus warning people away from using violence as a way of life since in the end it will destroy you.

    However, the advocation for violence can be found in the fact Jesus never reprimanded a guard of any sort for their position in the army – nor the zealots. He likely saw armed conflict as useless (thus his lack of speech on it)…either way he didn’t say nothing when given many chances.

    I would also say the Tanakh talks about war a lot in the texts and it was a known and common thing for humanity. Now war is never the most decent place for humanity – but sometimes it’s neccesary (like Hitler being stopped for example). However, it is also the exception to the norm of ‘love your neighbor’. But, like you point out, what if your neighbor is being brutalized? It is at this point, in the protection of another, that maybe violence (if it has to be used) may come into play. I also think gov’ts hold the right to wage war if they deem it ‘just’ (that has nothing to do with Christianity per se).

    But again, and I stress this as deep as my conscience can go – violence is an absolute breaking of the rule of peace (which Jesus taught) but may have exceptions where it is deemed more neccesary than the ‘rule of peace’ (like loving a neighbor via protecting them)…and even this should be explained well as the only last path available in the situation.

    I’m not above violence per se (it could happen)…but I will fight that idea and ideology until the very day I die (that’s for sure).

  45. Steve sorry – 2 comments of your ended up in the filter and I just released them now…didn’t see them.

    #28 comment has been added – Steve’s comment from filter.

  46. Theoldadam,

    There are a lot of comments, so I might have missed this, but I’m curious as to how you reconcile the hating aspect with the idea that you’re supposed to love those that hate you (for if you only love those that love you, well, everybody does that), and turn the other cheek, and so forth? I know you’re saying that you hate “evil,” but that is too vague for me. Evil is almost a useless concept unless there is someone acting on that impulse. I’m not sure how you’d separate hating evil and hating those who would do evil.

    I understand confronting evil and I understand not tolerating its presence and stopping it.

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