“The mark in Leviticus correlates to the mark in Revelation. That is enough for me to make a discerning judgment” (Kim)
How exactly is the mark (for the dead) in Leviticus even remotely linked to the mark idea in Revelations? Even if this had some plausbility (which I would need explained as to connection) – tattoo’s don’t neccesarily fall under the idea of the ‘mark of the beast’ – of the which we cannot even be sure is an actual ‘mark’ (since Revelations uses metaphor and imagery quite a lot).
However, if there were a ‘mark of the beast’ it also would have made sense to the early believers that recieved that letter to know about it…and they mention nothing about it in ancient literature of the church (maybe 100 AD to 400 AD). To me, the mark might be directly connected to idolatry – which mainstream tattooing isn’t. So no worries there.
“And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name” (Rev 14:11)
It seems to me this ‘mark’ is directly connected to idolatry – and the beasts’ ‘name’. So even if this is a ‘tattoo’ – it is pretty specific one with the name of the person and certain places that name will be written (hand and forehead)…if we are taking that passage literally. I have yet to see a tattoo like this – of some anti-christ’s name on someone’s hand or forehead.
However, this could all be metaphorical in nature also. Maybe there is no literal ‘mark’ but the adherence to an anti-christ figure and his mandates which would effect one’s actions (work of your hands) and mindset (what you think about the world). This could be a simple warning to John’s people about not following the Roman system with variety of gods and corrupt practices. Which may have effected the amount of work they could find in society or even corrupted their thoughts on ‘right and wrong’. It’s a possibility.
Which is a warning to us – even in this day – about joining systems that are ’anti-christ’ in nature. Nazism would have been a great example of this concept. However there are tonnes of other ideas that are quite anti-christ in nature – even certain business (greed) and environmental (destroying the earth and animals habitats) ethics can be seen this way. We just need to keep looking at what Jesus taught and if society is not lining up with those ideals – we need to follow Jesus over those ideals…even if it hurts the pocketbooks or respectability.
***Comment originally aired at Discern It’s ‘Should a Christian Get a Tattoo?‘
I usually avoid Revelations like a plague – but since we are in a pandemic and it’s the ‘end times’ – mine as well at least have one blog on something fascinating.
Greg Carey’s Ultimate Things would be helpful here. Revelation isn’t talking about things in the future but things in the present day (at the time of the writing that is). Whoever the beast was… some say Augustus others Nero while others some roman prelate/general. the connection here is the tattoos or military marks and signs that the Roman military had to ID themselves.
as for “We just need to keep looking at what Jesus taught and if society is not lining up with those ideals” best of luck trying to discern what those are. it’s a little too broad and when ppl do latch onto an idea, the action of carrying it out is disputed. like loving your neighbor.. some would say it’s perfectly fine to tell a gay person that they are sinning and going to hell “out of love” while others accept LGBTQ people without question “out of love.”
First of all, many people throught history starting with Nero, Stahlin, Hitler, etc have made the mistake of pointing them out as the beast, which is erroneous. There is a very easy way of knowing who this man is going to be. So, unless the candidate fits the characteristics below, then he is not that antichrist:
* He makes a covenant with israel for one seven year period.
* He breaks his covenant in the middle of the seven year period and sets up the
abomination of desolation in the holy place within the soon to be rebuilt temple.
* He receive a fatal head would and lives (mock resurrection).
* He will have a right hand man called the false prophet that will be perfoming
satanic, counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders on behalf of the first beast.
* He will be given authority over the saints to make war against them and to conquer
during the Great tribulation period from the middle of the seven year period up til the
return of Christ.
These are just a few of the characteristics of that beast to come and therefore, you can see that none of these men mentioned in history have fulfilled any of those requirements. This beast is someone who is yet to walk onto the scene of human history. In any case, when you see someone who begins to display these attributes, then you can say, here he is! Personally, from my studies I don’t believe that individuals who make up the church will even see the false christ, as we will be resurrected and caught up before he is revealed. If you’d like to know why I believe that, please check out my post called “The Resurrection and Catching Away.”
“the connection here is the tattoos or military marks and signs that the Roman military had to ID themselves” (Luke)
Good point…I figured as much – like a branding on their arm or something. I also figure Revelations has to make sense in it’s era – since this is when and to whom it was written.
“best of luck trying to discern what those are” (Luke)
Really? Isn’t this the whole rols of a Christian – to discern what is and isn’t lining up with Jesus’ teachings?
For example, you and I are both pacifists – non-violent reactionaries…why? I think we have both made cases from Jesus’ teachings about non-violence as to why we hold these particular stances. This is what we see Jesus saying and doing in his life – we see if we want to follow this person – so must we.
I am not saying this is an easy task – but it is a task each Christian must apply themselves into – studying and learning what it is their messiah taught.
Now although you and I see room for the gay community in churches – many don’t. However, this is also a matter of interpretation (discernment). And it is a worthwhile one – how could we ever defend our position on the gay community if we don’t know our personal interpretation on such a topic.
“Revelation isn’t talking about things in the future but things in the present day…” (Luke)
I agree with you, for the most part. However, I think that Revelation was and is more than just a book written about what was going on in the time of it’s writing. Although that is the main starting part for understanding this book.
I don’t want to write it off as some piece of literature that has no meaning for our generartion. Because the book seems to carry with it, a warning to all generations that read it. Of course that warning has been misinterpreted and re-interpreted in any number of careless ways.
As for tattoos being the mark of the beast. That’s a pretty big theological stretch. Doesn’t surprise me that christians would make that conclusion
“H also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right ahnd or on his forehead, so that no one sould buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.”
Please read the following and tell me if you think this is a “theological stretch.”
Barcelona nightclub chips customers
Alert Print Tuesday night is implant night
By John Leyden • Get more from this author
Posted in ID, 19th May 2004 12:53 GMT
Free whitepaper – Dell PowerEdge M1000e blade server
A tongue-in-cheek Register story has backfired after a corporation took up a possible application we sought to poke gentle fun at.
US cybercorporation Applied Digital Solutions has developed the so-called “VeriChip”, a “miniaturised, implantable radio frequency identification device (RFID) that has the potential to be used in a variety of personal identification, security, financial, and potential healthcare applications”.
This subdermal RFID chip could be used to restrict use of firearms to authorised users or in a less lethal scenario pay for drinks and admission at the Baja Beach Club in Barcelona.
Yes that’s right – Annanova reports how ‘VeriChip’ means regular clubbers at the Baja Beach will “no longer have to wait in queue to pay to get in”. Absolutely in this modern age is obviously far easier to have a “brief outpatient ‘chipping’ procedure lasts just a few minutes and involves only local anaesthetic followed by quick, painless insertion of the VeriChip” than to flash the cash.
Tuesday night is ‘chipping night’
“The nightclub has now turned Tuesday nights into Implant Night where guests can be chipped in between drinking and dancing,” Annanova reports. Applied Digital Solutions (ADS) reckons the tiny gadget – “about the size of a grain of rice” – could even replace credit cards in the future or be used to store medical or security data.
ADS reckons the VeriPay application of its subdermal RFID chip is more secure than credit cards in authorising small transactions which are sometimes processed automatically without a signature or secondary authorisation. Emmm. At least with a credit card thieves would have to physical locate it and steal it from someone. With VeriChip all a crook would have to do is render a holder insensible – hardly difficult in a nightclub – and free drinks are theirs for the night.
Imagine the scenario – you get drunk in a Barcelona nightclub, pass out, and a month later you find you’re bankrupt because you’ve bought half the teenagers in the Catalan capital tapas. Tremendous. And how would you go about disputing you bar bill then? ADS says VeriChip is so small “it is virtually undetectable and practically indestructible once inserted under your skin” but we’re not entirely convinced that would stop some thug trying to cut the chip out from underneath someone’s skin. If the chip is used only by a outlet the crime would be a rather pointless. But if use of VeriPay is extended the chip becomes a more attractive target.
Back in December when we took a sceptical look at VeriPay, Vulture Central hacks suggested that “RFID-scanning autopour beer pumps could dispense your preferred tipple before you’ve even reached the bar”. A tragic HTML oversight meant our joke indicator was omitted (as the second such offence, the relevant coder has been denied pizza for a month), and now we find ADS has come up with the same marketing wheeze at the Baja Beach Club.
Doubtless this is a case of great minds thinking alike but if ADS were in any way inspired by Lester Haines’ satirical piece a consultancy payment to the Reg’s Strategy Boutique would be much appreciated. Gracias. ®
“Although that is the main starting part for understanding this book.” (Just1)
Don’t get all ‘Left Behind’ series on me now (lol).
“As for tattoos being the mark of the beast. That’s a pretty big theological stretch. Doesn’t surprise me that christians would make that conclusion” (Just1)
Me neither really…I remember hearing this line of reasoning like 15 years ago.
Don’t get all ‘Left Behind’ series on me now (lol). (SVS)
It was more of “Thief in the Night” meets “Left Behind” with a little bit of JVI tossed in, just in case. With wicked huge bugs carrying people off and stinging them in the gut
I watched some Left Behind last night – was on Vision channel – man what a funny movie…Stace just hates me watching that stuff.
“Really? Isn’t this the whole rols of a Christian – to discern what is and isn’t lining up with Jesus’ teachings? ”
when i stated “best of luck trying to discern what those are” in terms of what is core of christianity, i think ya misread my intentions… well hell, i wasn’t all too clear myself.
you and i agree on stuff… we rage at the machine that sucks humanity out of the equation and only leaves an impersonal and judge’n God in it’s place. you and i disagree on many things too.. .like i’m a universalist and you.. well you’re not. (i’m unsure exactly where you stand on that). discernment is key as well as a willingness to listen.
but where that stems from and what we hold as CORE depends on our experience. now before ppl go off and state “well you’re just devolve’n into relativism” i’m going to state that you’re half-right. i’m evolve’n into relationalism. we all have our own experience that is uniquely ours, but we are connected to one another in ways we will never fully comprehend. we’re relative within a larger meta-narrative.. subjective within a larger objective picture. so our core beliefs and reasons for having them may differ… but if we’re in a community that is diverse i think we’re doing something right.
“i don’t want to write it off as some piece of literature that has no meaning for our generartion”
i agree! neither do i. there is some wonderful things and ideas that are very relevant to our time in apocalyptic literature. i just don’t like when ppl use it as a Nostradamus style horoscope for what’s going to happen in 2012 or whatever. isn’t there a prohibition against soothsaying in Lev. and Duet? 😉
“i just don’t like when ppl use it as a Nostradamus style horoscope for what’s going to happen in 2012 or whatever” (Luke)
I am quite fascinated about how fervently some people believe the rapture and end times ideas within Revelations and how they make it look within the West in recent centuries. It is quite amazing these people believe some of this stuff (ie: a rapture, anti-christ, tribulation scenario). It’s not that they believe it as much as how they envision it that boggles my mind.
Hello! First of all, it is not a tattoo. It is something that is subdermal that will be used for the purpose of buying and selling, that is, credit and debit. And second, this technology is already here:
Barcelona clubbers get chipped
BBC Science producer Simon Morton goes clubbing in Barcelona with a microchip implanted in his arm to pay for drinks.
Having the chip inserted was a breeze
Imagine having a glass capsule measuring 1.3mm by 1mm, about the size of a large grain of rice injected under your skin.
Implanting microchips that emit a Radio Frequency Identification (RFID) into animals has been common practice in many countries around the world, with some looking to make it a legal requirement for domestic pet owners.
The idea of having my very own microchip implanted in my body appealed. I have always been an early adopter, so why not.
Last week I headed for the bright lights of the Catalan city of Barcelona to enter the exclusive VIP Baja Beach Club.
The night club offers its VIP clients the opportunity to have a syringe-injected microchip implanted in their upper arms that not only gives them special access to VIP lounges, but also acts as a debit account from which they can pay for drinks.
This sort of thing is handy for a beach club where bikinis and board shorts are the uniform and carrying a wallet or purse is really not practical.
I met the owner of the club, Conrad Chase, who had come up with the idea when trying to develop the ultimate in membership cards and was the first person implanted with the capsule, made by VeriChip Corporation.
Nurse Laia held a rather large needle
With a waiver in his hand Conrad asked me to sign my life away, confirming that if I wanted the chip removed it was my responsibility.
Four aspiring VIP members sat quietly sipping their beverages as the nurse Laia began preparing the surgical materials.
Like a scene from a sci-fi movie, latex gloves and syringes were laid out on the table as the DJ played loud dance tunes that made my heart thump, or was it just fear?
Questions were going through my mind. Would it hurt? What are the risks? What if I want to get it out?
I ordered another drink.
Laia started by disinfecting my upper arm and then administered a local anaesthetic to numb the area where the chip would be implanted.
With the large needle in her hand, she tested the zone which made me flinch and led to another dose of the anaesthetic.
The chip is contained in a tiny glass capsule
With a numb arm, Laia held up the rather large needle containing the microchip and inserted it beneath the layer of skin and fat on my arm.
She pressed the injector and it was in – my very own 10 digit number safely located in my body.
The chip is made of glass and is inert so there is no risk of it reacting with my body.
It sits dormant under the skin sending out a very low range radio frequency so it will not set off airport security systems.
The chip responds to a signal when a scanner is held near it and supplies its own unique ID number.
The number can then be linked to a database that is linked to other data, at the Baja beach club it make charges to a customers account.
If I want to leave the club then I can have it surgically removed – a pretty simple procedure similar to having it put in.
Now, the question of did it hurt. Having the chip inserted was a breeze, no real pain to report of.
The real pain was the sore head the following day after a night on an open bar tab.
You can hear more about Simon’s experiences on the BBC World Service programme Go Digital
Make no mistake, the word of God here in Revelation regarding the mark is not symbolic!
“Make no mistake, the word of God here in Revelation regarding the mark is not symbolic!” (dmcal)
How does this chip even relate to the idea of ‘666’ then – since the mark of the beast (if we are being literal) was actually that number – in two places – hand or forehead.
This is a chip designed by a company which really has little ties to some literal anti-christ – unless we want to call business the final anti-christ? Because this chip is not given in the name of some other god – but only in the facilitation of banking and identity…is business having that much intel servitude to another god?
Irregardless, it’s a chip not a mark…and that Revelation passage clearly says ‘mark’ – which seems to resemble a tattoo or branding – which would be the number 666….which to me makes this a non-literal passage (but more metaphorical).