Ye Shall Tithe…Or Something Like That

You shall surely tithe all the produce from what you sow, which comes out of the field every year.” (Deut 14:22)

Will a man rob God? Yet you are robbing Me! But you say, ‘How have we robbed You?’ In tithes and offerings.” (Malachi 3:8)

I just did a short read on tithes in the Tanakh and it seems tithes were more about giving of what you produce or ‘sow’ from the land to the community of God…or one could say ‘tithe’ what you make/earn to God.

I have seen this talked a lot about in Christian circles about giving to the church and what have you – and there is some of that inherent in the passage (a religious aspect). However, if we are to modernize an idea like this then isn’t it with regards to the whole of society we live in?

I suggest this idea is met within the tax system. I live in society where about 18% of my cheque per month is taxes both Federally and Provincially to help with stuff like roads, social services, fire/police, hospitals, etc. Top that off I also pay taxes for property that go towards stuff like education and up-keep of the neighborhood (ie: garbage disposal). It’s a more minor amount – something like 4% of my personal income. In essence, you can see a very helpful trend happening here – 22% of what I ‘earn’ is being used towards the development and betterment of society around me. My working has an inherent version of the ‘tithe’ built into it (and I don’t mind giving it).  

So in my version of this idea I see a giving to the community thus fulfilling the aspects of ‘loving my neighbor’ and also ‘sharing’ what is earned by me for the benefit of those around me. The country has built this into what we do, so if we ‘work’ we ‘tithe’ so to speak (one can view it that way IMO). So we would suggest and help people to find work in our communities – this is doing them a huge service in the role of helping society function and in giving.

As for the religious aspect, well it’s not mentioned in the NT. And if it is it’s pretty couched into the scriptures somewhere and not respresented in a search for the exact term. However, I still believe in helping out the local church (if you attend one) since this is a place you frequent and want to see it’s up-keep (even may help pay for programs). One needs to remember the church is tax-exempt in this society since they are by virtue a ‘charitable’ oranization and we also support them with our taxes in various ways. So how much to give to a church is a better question?

*I will note in my interpretation a church is not subject to tithes (via the Law) but subject to making just rules and charity via the Noahide laws for Gentiles (which may also have roots in Acts 15).

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18 thoughts on “Ye Shall Tithe…Or Something Like That

  1. Yep! I have felt for a long time that using the 10% clause is taken out of context for churches. In addition, I think it is just plain gross to try to use God to wring money out of people. As you say, if people have chosen to be part of a community, they should help pay for its upkeep. With that in mind, I wish more churches would just take a Sunday to have their accountant to explain where the money goes and that if the church wants to be able to do x, y, and z then the average person in the church would need to give such an amount. I think that would be SO much more honest than the Pastor getting up and quoting scripture while telling people they are giving to God, not the church.

  2. Old Testament logic, God said to tithe in order to maintain the temple as well as provide for the priest. There was no independent system that was used to make sure that priest were managing the money wisely. That was between God and the priest.

    The principal / blessing associated with tithing is still in effect. If it wasn’t, God would be a liar when it says that He will open up the flood gates of heaven. The New Testament just says to give what your says to give. The law requiring the tithe has been removed and now it is up to you to decide what to give. I guess the answer to how much is what ever God asks you to give.

  3. My shul recommends we pay 2% of our income as dues (Shuls don’t have offering plates since no money is to be handled on Shabbat.) Of course there are many other programs that cost money as well, but that is also true in churches that want you to give 10% upfront and then still pay as you go.

    If you read in Torah about the gifts that were brought, some of them were for the upkeep of the Cohanim and Levites but some were also for the person’s use who brought them. They took food and had a party with their friends and hopefully a few poor people as well. The requirement that all meat from sacrifices must be eaten by the 3rd day is thought to be an encouragement to generosity. You can’t salt it down and save it so might as well share with all who want to eat.

    I found it amusing in Torah that when people brought the materials for building the Tabernacle that it didn’t take long until they were told “Enough. We don’t need anything more!” This has to be the one and only time such a thing was ever uttered in the world of religion…

    I do have to insert from the other side, however, that congregants expect everything they want to be available at their place of worship to be available but how many consider how much time, effort, and money is needed to bring all of that about? That said, I still think 10% is a ridiculous expectation to put on people and certainly only a surface reading of what is really taught in Tanakh about tithes. Funny thing how the teachers of ‘the law’ are much more lenient on this than those who preach ‘grace’!

  4. “With that in mind, I wish more churches would just take a Sunday to have their accountant to explain where the money goes and that if the church wants to be able to do x, y, and z then the average person in the church would need to give such an amount” (Andrew)

    I couldn’t agree more, transparency is everything. It would be such a nice gesture for the church to have meeting that detailed where are all the funds are going and what’s being used for what…I also think that might encourage people to give more or designate money for an area.

    I attended a church that bought a building and they let us know if we gave that was a huge portion of where that money went…and eventually the building was owned. It felt good to know we were contributing to ‘buying’ the church for some reason.

  5. “The principal / blessing associated with tithing is still in effect. If it wasn’t, God would be a liar when it says that He will open up the flood gates of heaven” (Xander)

    I wonder about the use of this passage in Christian denoms – what does the intent of that passage really mean? I would have to re-look at this idea and see what is meant there…prosperity of the community perhaps?

    “The law requiring the tithe has been removed and now it is up to you to decide what to give.” (Xander)

    Although true we do not have a law like this to follow as Christian Gentiles peoples – I do think within that law is great ideas for developing our own method of a charitable system. I tend to think countries have taken on this challenge for us and we still give tithes in that sense (ie: taxes).

    • It really is a cool blessing. The only place God says to test Him. But the principle is withhold your tithes and offerings and be cursed or give willfully and be blessed in such abundance.

      I see tithes and taxes as separate though. I look at tithes and charitable contributions as separates as well. The tithe / first fruit should be the person setting apart the best of their income / wages and dedicating to God. The tithe always went to God or His representatives (the temple). Charitable contributions was in addition to this.

      Why is 10% too much to give?

  6. “My shul recommends we pay 2% of our income as dues” (Yael)

    That’s an idea I don’t mind – that 2% helps with a lot of things I am guessing. I like the idea of dues.

    “That said, I still think 10% is a ridiculous expectation to put on people and certainly only a surface reading of what is really taught in Tanakh about tithes. Funny thing how the teachers of ‘the law’ are much more lenient on this than those who preach ‘grace’!” (Yael)

    I like the concept of tithing and the intent therein (thus the blog) and I can see the usefulness of such an idea. The whole 10% church thing – I think has worn it’s welcome.

    Funny thing about grace (as churches try to explain it)…it’s a sham.

  7. “The only place God says to test Him. But the principle is withhold your tithes and offerings and be cursed or give willfully and be blessed in such abundance.” (Xander)

    The weird thing about this, if we are going to use the blessing part, I am pretty blessed and the more taxes I seem to pay the more okay I seem to be. I said in this blog I paid some 22% of taxes – it’s actually around 28% (Canada). In fact, ever since I started working and paying into this system of taxes (which I would call very comparable to tithing in the Tanakh) – my life has since soared!

    “I see tithes and taxes as separate though. I look at tithes and charitable contributions as separates as well. The tithe / first fruit should be the person setting apart the best of their income / wages and dedicating to God. The tithe always went to God or His representatives (the temple). Charitable contributions was in addition to this.” (Xander)

    This is where I think you need to study the Torah in more depth and see how that tithing system was used and how the original Torah community looked.

    Religion was part and parcel with the nation building laws – they were not seperate like we have – they were all in one. So when one gave to the temple – he gave to the community and the nation of Israel as well.

    Look in the Torah – you will find an interesting thing – there really is no tax system. There is no actual equivalent to what we see in our current systems of the use of tax to help support the nations we live in…unless we look at the tithing system in Torah – they share some similar qualities.

    Tithing was done of what people ‘sowed’ or produced – and the best was given for God and nation. Well I work hard and unlike those early Israelites – don’t farm, sow, or raise livestock – but I work in industrial city complex (at a university). However, the best of what I earn is automatically taken off at a rate of some 28% a month prior to me spending a dime of any of it.

    The tithe was law…fact. Everyone had to do it whether they liked it or not – this was for the upkeep of their society as they knew (namely the temple). Well, taxes function in that exact same area – they are laws that automatically happen and when they are taken help support the system that we all love – democracy and services we use (yes – even our beloved churches are beneficiaries of this).

    Tithes was a nation based thing – not a religious based thing alone. In Christianty we don’t quite understand this concept – we see it as a religious duty…but that’s not how it was used…it was used in a nation based context (Israel). Taxes are a nation based concept – tithes in churches are not.

    “Why is 10% too much to give?” (Xander)

    10% is way toooo much to give when on considers they are already giving 28% of their earned income to help this nation remain in the stable condition it does. Then add 10% on top of that – this equals 38% of my income going towards what can only be perceived as tithe based endeavors. Then we have to add on charity (like giving to Haiti)…soon we see I am running out of real estate to give.

    I think the 10% is bogus since the tax system is the one closer to actual tithing than what churches are doing – and in the tax system the benefits given are directly related to what I am earning. Tithing in churches is nowhere related to my ‘best offering’ available – I just gave 2 times (almost 3 times as much) to the gov’ts of the Province and the Feds. And that money is going directly to a ‘storehouse’ to help benefit society in many ways.

    So yeah, 10% is way too much – in fact I would say the churches need to drop tithing altogether since it is unjust.

    • I don’t agree.

      Abraham gave 10% to Melchizedek first and then the rest to the King of Sodom. The principle of giving to God before government.

      Under the mosaic covenant, the offerings were made to the temple. The food and grain went to support Levities since they had no other jobs. The Levities were not part of the government. When the kings came around, taxes were required of the people, but the people still tithed. The people still tithed to the Levities when Israel was under foreign occupation. The two are separate. When Malachi was written, Israel was under control of the Persians. You cant tell me that God is saying why are you robbing me and meaning that there people were not paying taxes into Persia. I understand the mentality of the state providing for the people, but the state’s expenditures are not always according to the will of God. The two are separate.

      Tithing isn’t a requirement. The truth is that less than 20% of a congregation actually tithes. One reason you never see the church say they have enough. The principle of tithing is giving the first 10% of your increase to God and trusting Him to take care of your financial needs. But, it isn’t a requirement, so give what you want to give.

  8. “The principle of tithing is giving the first 10% of your increase to God and trusting Him to take care of your financial needs. But, it isn’t a requirement, so give what you want to give.” (Xander)

    Then I think we have interpretation problems here.

    You mentioned earlier about the blessing passage concerning tithes…well…I don’t tithe in that Christian sense whatsoever (in the past 10 years lets say) and I am pretty blessed. Matter of fact, I went from utter to poverty to owning a home, a car, and everything nice that goes with a home (table, lawnmower, tv, computer, etc). I also have many friends. I am pretty blessed by any and all accounts of my life. I guess, who does that blessing apply to concerning tithes?

    “The two are separate. When Malachi was written, Israel was under control of the Persians. You cant tell me that God is saying why are you robbing me and meaning that there people were not paying taxes into Persia” (Xander)

    The two are not seperate and that’s the point – tithing was as much as part of the law as not coveting was (tithing being addressed in Malachi).

    I will note this, in this system there does not seem to be a ‘tax system’ – nor is there proof this was something defined by the Torah?

    The tithe did help the priest and the people of the community – including the poor and even the family that gave. This was built into the law to protect their religious rights and to provide for the religious gate-keepers since they were exempt from owning land. However, the tithe was part of a system that ensured the survival of the faith…and it was a law of the ‘nation’.

    So if we carry an idea like that forward into out time period – who is protecting our religious rights? Can a pastor own land or work for that matter? What exact laws is the church upholding that require a tithe? Questions can abound.

    The best equivalent is the nation states we come from – since the church is neither a nation state nor a law giver. We do not have priests in the same regards as the Tanakh explains (and we shouldn’t – they can work – no law prohibiting such an idea). So as Gentiles lets give to our communities also – via our nations laws – via their version of a ‘tithe of what we earn’ (ie: tax) – to help better society and secure our religious rights (our taxes also pay for the churches in a round-a-bout way as is).

    But I get it – if people want to give as charity (or as some other form of payment) to their local church to help support it – I am 100% in favor. I am just not in favor of calling this a ‘tithe’ since it will trick the masses into thinking it’s something that it may not be at all.

    • When I said blessed, I am not limiting all blessings to this one aspect.

      Mal 3: 8 Will man rob God? Yet you are robbing me. But you say, ‘How have we robbed you?’ In your tithes and contributions. 9 You are cursed with a curse, for you are robbing me, the whole nation of you. 10 Bring the full tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. And thereby put me to the test, says the LORD of hosts, if I will not open the windows of heaven for you and pour down for you a blessing until there is no more need. 11 I will rebuke the devourer for you, so that it will not destroy the fruits of your soil, and your vine in the field shall not fail to bear, says the LORD of hosts. 12 Then all nations will call you blessed, for you will be a land of delight, says the LORD of hosts.

      This is a specific financial blessing. If you tithe, God will rebuke the devour from your finances and pour blessings (financial) out until there is no more need. God blesses those that do His will. If you bless people, God blesses you. You can still be blessed and not tithe.

      ** However, the tithe was part of a system that ensured the survival of the faith…and it was a law of the ‘nation’. **
      Yes, the nation of Israel meaning the people, not the government body. If this was the case, there would not be tithing to the temple during foreign control as all money would have left the region.

      Tithing was part of the Mosaic law, but not the natural law. You didn’t see David or Solomon going to the temple to ask for money to keep the kingdom. The two are separate.

      ** The best equivalent is the nation states we come from – since the church is neither a nation state nor a law giver. **
      But while we are under the law of the nation we live in, we are part of the church or bride of Christ. Two separate parts. We tithe to the church and it is received by Jesus. What we have left is blessed. The church has the responsibility to take care of the flock and be good stewards, because they are accountable to God. We still pay taxes to the nation. Give to God what is God’s and give to Caesar what it Caesar’s.
      Heb 7: 1 For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, 2 and to him Abraham apportioned a tenth part of everything. He is first, by translation of his name, king of righteousness, and then he is also king of Salem, that is, king of peace. 3 He is without father or mother or genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but resembling the Son of God he continues a priest forever. 4 See how great this man was to whom Abraham the patriarch gave a tenth of the spoils! 5 And those descendants of Levi who receive the priestly office have a commandment in the law to take tithes from the people, that is, from their brothers, though these also are descended from Abraham. 6 But this man who does not have his descent from them received tithes from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises. 7 It is beyond dispute that the inferior is blessed by the superior. 8 In the one case tithes are received by mortal men, but in the other case, by one of whom it is testified that he lives. 9 One might even say that Levi himself, who receives tithes, paid tithes through Abraham, 10 for he was still in the loins of his ancestor when Melchizedek met him.

      Tithing is still valid, but it is not required. Under the mosaic law, failure to tithe was punishable by death. I know modern Jewish people don’t observe this as there is no temple. Same reason there are no sacrifices. For the Christian, we still have the temple and Jesus is the high priest.

      In the end, to tithe or not is up to the person.

      There is a sermon by Robert Morris you might find interesting here: http://www.tfchurch.org/

  9. I guess my problem with making tithes a ‘church’ thing is it actually isn’t…and never was…yet its used in many churches in a way that would make people think the same exact concept is being used (In Canada anyways)….since they do nothing to change the term but just to introduce it as ‘give to the church storehoues’ (the church very rarely has a storehouse).

    I think the idea has a lot more depth to it than just some religious symbol?

  10. Malachi 3:8 – 12 has some pretty key words in it: tithe, nation, storehouse, food, devourer, soil, vine, field, land of delight.

    The tithe seems to be tied directly to one’s ‘crops’ and they were giving of that to God for the ‘storehouse’…these seem to tied to the idea of the ‘nation’ and it’s well-being in regards to what can only be called economic growth in the sense of their ‘fields’ being ‘delightful’ (or full – in the future).

    I still don’t see how this is any different an idea than my taxes (money I have earned from personal work) going towards the ‘storehouse’ of the nation (in this case Canada). The well being of that being felt in continued growth for the nation and continued work being available for me in the future (which in fact is a blessing).

    “If this was the case, there would not be tithing to the temple during foreign control as all money would have left the region.” (Xander)

    Once we get into the foreign rule category then the tithe becomes even more of what I am talking about – where the people gave to the religious leaders to help keep their religious rights and help their own community (rally around one another). They likely were not concerned with helping the Persians per se – but making sure their sustenance stayed in their own ‘storehouse’ to feed and help their people (who were likely ignored by the rulers of the time).

    Malachi’s verse may be understood in that regards perhaps – maybe the temple or meeting place was being used as something to help ‘feed the people’ or keep their faith traditions alive in a time of dire straits. I don’t think it is neccesarily religious in nature alone.

    “We still pay taxes to the nation. Give to God what is God’s and give to Caesar what it Caesar’s.” (Xander)

    Interesting use of this scripture…what is God’s exactly in the context of that passage? I know Caesar is accepting money with his image on it – but what is God accepting in that passage?

    As for tithes, we have no passages where Jesus and his disciples actually do this (nor any single person in the NT). You fail to see tithes are about our actual ‘work’ and the ‘best of our work’ being given to God…well my taxes come off prior to any single thing on my cheque and they go to the gov’t(s) for the benefit of society…like a tithe.

    And in comparison, the church is not a nation and does not need tithes…it’s a religious body.

    “Tithing is still valid, but it is not required. Under the mosaic law, failure to tithe was punishable by death. I know modern Jewish people don’t observe this as there is no temple. Same reason there are no sacrifices. For the Christian, we still have the temple and Jesus is the high priest.” (Xander)

    Tithing is not valid in the ‘church’…it’s a church and by it’s mere existence the need for tithes is not required (this is not Judaism nor a nation state).

    Okay in the analogy, our body is the temple I am guessing and Jesus is the high priest…then shouldn’t we be giving that money to ourselves?

    If the building is the temple and Jesus is the high priest – then why give tithes…according to the atonement theories sacrifices and the such are done. The tithe is a sacrifice of the best of your ‘work/field’. I thought we also said ‘give to Caesar’s what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s’ – money is not what Jesus is after nor does it have his symbol on it – so if we tithe to the church let’s give what we produce/sow (corn maybe).

    Either way there is no good equivalent of the church to tithing.

    • The tithe is your personal increase. If you farm it is crops. Rancher = livestock. You earn cash, your tithe is of cash.

      Let me see if I understand your thought process. You pay taxes to Canada. They help people with unemployment, medical needs, military, and roads. They do more, but just to show the idea. These things were not done by the temple in the Old Testament. Are you saying that Canada is now your temple?

      Does Canada give money to the church to pay for the building or provide wages for the preacher? Does Canada send money to fund missionary trips? If so, my apologies. Do they support other religions with your taxes as well?

      ** likely were not concerned with helping the Persians per se – but making sure their sustenance stayed in their own ’storehouse’ to feed and help their people (who were likely ignored by the rulers of the time). **

      This is where I think we have a disconnect. The Jews would still be forced to pay taxes to Persia. There is not an option to not pay them taxes. The Jews would still be tithing to God though.

      No where in the Old Testament does God say pay your tithe to the Temple to support Judah. Judah, the nation, was not concerned with supporting the people. You took care of your own family. You helped neighbors. There was not this idea of state sponsored support system like in Canada.

      If you want to view Canada as doing God’s work for you, then that works for you. I know some people don’t like the idea of tithing or giving out any more money then they have to. That is what the New Testament says. Give what you want to give.

  11. Okay history lesson on tithes – best to go to the sources on this issue – I’ll provide 2 pages:

    (1) Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tithe#Old_Testament_origins

    (2) Rabbi Louis Jacobs

    Now to break those 2 down on what a tithe actually was. Types of tithes:

    (a) Terumah (heave offering or gift): “tithes have to be given from corn, wine, and oil by biblical law and from fruit and vegetables by Rabbinic law” (Jacobs). Given to a priest and may not be eaten by a non-priest.

    (b) Maaser Rishon (first tithe): “A tenth of the remainder of the yield” (Jacobs). This was given to a priest.

    (c) Terumat Maaser (10th of the 1st tithe): Given from the Levite to a priest – can be eaten by any Israelite.

    (d) Maser Sheni (2nd tithe): “The farmer separates a tenth of the reminder of his yield” (Jacobs). To be taken to Jerusalem to be be eaten in a ‘spirit of sanctity’. One could also use money from their crop and do the same thing in Jerusalem. “After the destruction of the Temple, maaser sheni was redeemed for a small amount and this tithe could then be consumed by the farmer wherever he happened to live” (Jacobs)

    (e) Maasar Ani (poor mans tithe): “However, every third and sixth year of the cycle culminating in the Sabbatical year, the second tithe is given to the poor” (Jacobs)

    (f) Masser Kesafim (money tithe/wealth tax – more recent): “many observant Jews today do donate a tenth of their annual income to charity” (Jacobs)

    The majority of the tithes seem like shared meals – with the person giving of the tithe also participating in the action to eat in all but one tithe (Terumah) it would seem (and that was the smallest portion given – as Jacobs points out could be a sixtieth for example).

    Many portions of the tithes given were to support the two subset of priests it would seem – local and in Jerusalem….this is where the storehouses idea came from. The priests were supported by such endeavors (couldn’t own land) and it seems like some of those tithes resulted in shared meals (Terumat Maaser).

    The tithe was used for support of the religious institution of the day because they could not work (on one hand) and for the people to also feel their giving (some of it they were allowed to eat or spend) and even help the poor. But this was then.

    Now, people give to charity in Judaism (maaser kesafim). That being said, the tithe is, for all apparent reasons, done for some technical reasons on purity and there is no temple community anyways.

    So in the end, I think you have some valid points about giving in church to community to support the community and the workers. But is the tithe they take even used like that above? Churches don’t really follow that law nor do they need to…yet they still use the term tithe like they are. I mean, since when I have seen anyone that gave tithes use a portion of that to celebrate God? Or a tithe being given to the poor? We don’t share meals with what we give the church as far as I can tell – in celebration to God.

    So I don’t like the church using tithe because I am not sure it fits.

  12. Maybe it doesn’t fit. I think they are looking at it from the perspective of Abraham tithing to Melchizedek, which sets the premise of the tithe.

  13. “These things were not done by the temple in the Old Testament. Are you saying that Canada is now your temple?” (Xander)

    But the tithe did help the poor and one was allowed to keep aspects of their tithe to celebrate God. That being said, the church is not a temple in a nation state anyhow. Churches open and close their doors all the time – what if a church closes – where does the tithe go then? We just change churches and continue the process. Kind of silly in a way.

    I would say Canada does do a good job with what they take from us – the taxes. They do help in many aspects – including the poor and continue our existence in having work (income). In those sense they are more like the nation state aspect of the tithe.

    “Does Canada give money to the church to pay for the building or provide wages for the preacher? Does Canada send money to fund missionary trips? If so, my apologies. Do they support other religions with your taxes as well?” (Xander)

    Yes, in some round-a-bout way the taxes help to ensure churches exist. One needs to remember churches don’t pay taxes – so the upkeep around them is done with taxpayers dollars. This same tax break is allowed of all religions – they are non-profit entities – equality. Preachers are receiving the break in the system as is being tax free.

    We also need to remember there was no tax system in Torah – outside this tithe idea. There is no real comparison but I am suggesting they are pretty close in many ways.

    “I know some people don’t like the idea of tithing or giving out any more money then they have to. That is what the New Testament says. Give what you want to give.” (Xander)

    My issue with it is taxes (at almost 30% are being taken as is) to support many things in society – including churches to some degree. Why should I add on top of that amount – that I see clearly helping society – to a church using an idea to get some to support in-house programming mostly? If I add on another 10% we are looking at 40% of what somene gives – and is that really fair – namely for people with very litle disposable income? That doesn’t seem to line up with the idea within tithing at all.

    I agre, we should give as we can to support where we meet to discuss God. But in the end, it’s just another building and not a temple…under a system that seems outdated since any Pastor can work and make money like everyone else. I would suggest they drop the term since they are not meeting the same ends as the tithe nor do they really try to. It seems more like ‘rent’, a ‘pay-cheque’, and ‘money to buy supplies’ to me. I would really love to see how people’s tithes are being spent – moey they give and do not neccesarily share in – even though they worked hard for every dime they give.

  14. This may the one of the first time’s I say this…my version of tithing needs a lot more thought and study…I think I am going somewhere with the point and my arguments are not as backed up as they should be…they just may be without merit.

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