“This is the point I am making that you seem to be having a problem understanding – you detest slavery in spite of the bible, not because of it…” (MUR)
And you are missing a point I am making – which is based on nothing more than reality. I grasp that I did not grow up in ‘slavery’ or a country ‘that had it as its base’ – so obviously I am not going to think much of slavery. So some of what you are saying is accurate – contextually I am a product of the 20th century in Canada. But you only see an angle when there is whole surface to be uncovered.
The bible has not helped me lessen my detest for ‘slavery’. I do not accept slavery more because of the NT or the Tanakh…is there any reason I should? But again, I am asking you to view the bible as a piece of literature in a certain time frame – which you fail to accept. As well, the scriptures do not ask me to advocate for the institution of slavery – if so – show me. As well, contextually the role of slavery is quite similar to our working a job these days (and I can actually prove that). Yet all of this is not enough – you play captain caveman with scripture and pretty much remain as dis-enlightened in the convo as you can with ‘bible says this, bible bad, see?’. For someone as reasonable as you are I find it strange the topic of Christianity and Judaism can almost make you go backwards in your reasonableness.
“what I will say though is that not everyone Jesus said made moral sense, and not everything Jesus commands you to do – do you do, therefore you do pick and choose what to interpret to support your view that a book of fiction was inspired by god.” (MUR)
For some odd reason, and I am not sure if I am just reading this in, you act as if I should be somewhat scared of your reason and logic concerning my own faith? Cut and paste the contradictions – lets discuss them – I have very little problem with tough questions. I know they exist – you know they exist – but what level of meaning are they given is a whole nother question.
As for choosing – well I am person born with ‘choice’…and this is really not something ‘bad’. I will admit I face all interpretive problems head on and do not duck and hide from these issues – I am not ashamed of having faith – what’s wrong with that exactly? However, your demonizing choice when you say ‘therefore you do pick and choose’ – when it is my God given right to do exactly that. In fact, you do exactly that as well in basic society and daily living – and I am not about to demonize that. For example, you like a certain type of potato chip from a certain company perhaps? Well it’s taking money from another business yet I think that’s perfectly fine. You will vote for a certain political party which supports many of the views I disagree with (putting as in some opposition perhaps)…but hey – what’s choice for if not that?
So let’s get off this ‘high horse’ of cutting and pasting when you do the same thing with your version of reality as well. Yet, I am demonized for doing so? Odd really. I tend to find myself your equal – maybe I was wrong?
As for your problem with picking and choosing – the core issue – let’s discuss ‘why that is’?
“The other thing you forget is the context of the bible – Jesus, was a Jew. Christianity, was written 40 years after Jesus’s death – by Paul, who wrote about 80,000 words about the Christian religion – and he got this inspiration from a dream” (MUR)
Oh read my blog – no one gets more into the fact Jesus was Jewish than me – in fact I personally promote this fact to Christians in general. So I already have that in the back of my head when I speak of Jesus and his faith in God (ie: himself being a follower of Judaism).
As for Paul, I think he is massly misunderstood. He see’s 2 paths to God, Gentiles via Jesus and Jews as Jews (via their faith system). Paul understands clearly that a Gentile need not follow Jewish law to follow God, not a requirement (not even in current Judaism).
As for the ‘dream’ part – don’t you think thats a tad simplistic? But what else can be said to someone who does not believe their may be a spiritual aspect to humanity. Viewing Paul in that light changes it from merely a ‘dream’ (one time thing) to a experience or aspect of his being? It’s gonna be very hard to convince me this is not realistic – since my own cultural tradition teaches spirituality is part of making the person ‘whole’ (ie: First Nations Canadian). Is it a bias, maybe?
“If I had a dream and I said it was inspired by God, and it commanded that all the Christian’s in the world to do something would you believe me?” (MUR)
I would say ‘lets hear it’ and ‘lets discuss it’. I wouldnt ask people to willy-nilly accept something because you think you have the authority for it to have meaning. Even Jesus and Paul had to put some work in to be accepted.
*Comment lifted from tildebs blog ‘Why is suffering a fatal flaw for belief in a benevolent Creator’.