I am not a fan of Calvinism – I disagree with him on many points; Throw in Luther, Zwingli, and Wesley also
I think the articles of faith of each denomination are not actually beliefs that mean anything
I cannot support the church system/institution as it currently is running
I do not support old creeds for the sake of tradition (ie: Nicene or Apostles’ Creed)
I am not a Trinitarian nor do I think Jesus is God
I do not like the way atonement is used – or the definitions of the atonement
The bible is not without its set of errors
Communion and Baptism make no sense in the way they are done these days
I do not support scripture cut n paste doctrine
Jesus was Jewish and this faith is founded on the historical foundation of Judaism – we have managed to leave that beautiful tradition
The law is not all that bad – it offers direction and moral guideline…our NT is solely based on the Tanakh (Torah and Prophets)…and this is good
I think spirituality is a lot more in depth than some church meetings or music (God is not in a building and not limited)
I am not sure of the concept of hell and a loving God can co-exist
God loves all people equally – no one is lesser/greater in His eyes
I do not believe in vicarious righteousness
I believe what we do determines and proves what we truly believe
I am not a Christian…as they are making themselves known these days…
Loosing My Religion 
I haven’t visited you in a while and that is my loss. A brilliant post.
This post sound a lot like the song “God” by John Lennon.
I think there has to be a balance with unbelief. What do you believe?
Myself, I like this quote by Einstein
“Try and penetrate with our limited means the secrets of nature and you will find that, behind all the discernible concatenations, there remains something subtle, intangible and inexplicable. Veneration for this force beyond anything that we can comprehend is my religion. To that extent I am, in point of fact, religious.”
I am spiritual in the sense that I know I am connected to something bigger than myself. My family, my community, nature, the cosmos, life and death. All if it, is life and worth celebrating and being in awe of. Life is about being thankful and experience. That’s what I beleive.
It’s funny that the original “christians” did not refer to themselves by that label. It came from those who observed them, and needed a way to describe them (for conversation’s sake). They referred to themselves as those “in the way”.
I tend to be the same way. I don’t like the label “christian” because it means something different to everyone who hears it. When you describe yourself as a christian, you then have to try to understand what the other party thinks a christian is! Then the “corrections” and debates begin. I don’t have the time or patience for that.
I usually am not questioned as to what I believe, but when I do, I like to say “get to know me, then I will be whatever you say I am.” My hope is that they call me “friend”.
“I haven’t visited you in a while and that is my loss. A brilliant post” (John Schuck)
Been a while since I seen you – I haven’t been over to your place/site for a while either – maybe I shall make some trips that way in the nest few months (blogging i mean).
“This post sound a lot like the song “God” by John Lennon” (Wolf)
One of my favorite Lennon tunes of all time I may add. I am not sure I tried to copy that type of writing from Lennon – but I figured I would lay it all on the line so as to bare my soul to what is and isn’t the core pieces of this faith in my personal experience.
“I think there has to be a balance with unbelief. What do you believe?” (Wolf)
I think there has to be some room for questions and areas of doubt – since we will not grow if there is not (concerning interpretations I am speaking). We cannot be too sure – if we are too sure then we are no longer having faith – but certainty. Faith is the hoping of things ‘not yet seen’ according to the Hebrews writer – so there needs to remain areas of mystery…anyone that knows it all – knows nothing.
I am not sure about unbelief – but maybe so – like doubt. I have doubts about a lot of things and I made that known here…but is doubt that bad? I would not learn if I did not doubt…nor would I grow as a human being. I think there has to be some room for doubt – since it is not a sin – it is something that can help us mature.
“I usually am not questioned as to what I believe, but when I do, I like to say “get to know me, then I will be whatever you say I am.” My hope is that they call me “friend”.” (Bruced)
I like that attitude…I am kind of the same way. I let my friends know I am a Christian – but that I am not the kind they will be used to (having experiences that have turned them off from this faith). They all seem to like me and get along with me – maybe because all I am seeking to be is a friend (a friend is the best thing we can be and a fulfillment of the idea ‘love your neighbor’). That’s literally my life goal – to be able to be friends and with that comes some responsibility and I enjoy that.
I do not like the label Christian either – I was calling myself a follower of Jesus – but even that became too long. I know think Jesus is my teacher and I am merely a student – learning from the teachings and studying to know about God. I just don’t like labels I guess – but I know that I identify with the Christian faith. The label Christian has some bad connotations attached to it that I am not sure I want to keep on defending.
dude! i’m behind you here! i’m still wrestling with the trinity, but aside from that i’m with you!
go figure… some one wrote something on the internet that made perfect sense! RAWK!
I bet that John Shuck would welcome you into his congregation.
Who cares what some people think the word “Christian” means, anyway? Labels like that are often used as tools for exclusion, for creating an “in group” and an “outsider group”. It is meaningless, as far as I am concerned.
Yeah John is a good guy and I enjoy his taste for life – I am sure he would be very welcoming.
I think the term Christian is something that is hard to figure out – since it can mean so many things on any given day…and most people have a bad taste in their mouth from this faith (that are not part of this faith in some orthodox way)…namely people that do not attend church. If I am to follow Paul’s adage ‘be all things to all people’ – then what do I become when I want to follow my faith sincerely to all involved in my life (mainly unbelievers)?
These are difficult positions to hold if one is looking for a physical community. I really recognize myself in a lot of these statements, and while they contain a sense of strength — in the fact that you can state these confidentaly even though it goes against “status quo” — I’ve always found a sense of loss in them, as well. We aren’t people who can walk into a “regular” Christian church and belong, because we don’t hold to the Trinity, or the right atonement theory. And while we can still discuss the Bible and our faith, it becomes difficult, because we don’t have the same groundwork in our paradigms.
We aren’t people who can walk into a “regular” Christian church and belong, because we don’t hold to the Trinity, or the right atonement theory.
Yes, I feel like a wandering outcast, unable to find a true spiritual home.
It is always refreshing when a person is up front about where they are with God. It is much easier than parsing scripture and trying to convince each other to think and believe exactly the same, which I don’t think is possible; and none of us fool God when we fall from living to please Him and live instead to please one another. So even though, I am in a much different place than you, at this moment in time, I am drawn to your honesty and humility, as always.
Pam
OSS,
I think we might be surprised at what people in any given church are thinking and find that they also do not completely agree with the tradition that they find themselves in. I think that is why I now lean toward the nondenominational and gather simply with others around Jesus. I don’t really even want to be part of a church that matches my personal theology. I’ve done that before and then I grew some more and my theology changed. Which is a good thing because that which came out of stauch theological unity was, truly an ugly thing to behold and had no resemblance to Christ. I am learning to despise the false unity of man and instead, embrace God’s diverse unity in Christ. Besides, I’m getting old enough now that I really am not in need of the bolstering found in the illusion of ‘people like me’.
Thanks Pam for the kind words!
Pam,
While we might be surprised at what the average lay-person is thinking in terms of the church, I’m still not sure that I’m someone who can automatically “fit” into a traditional Christian church. I might if I disagreed on Original Sin, or the atonement theory, or even if the resurrection was purely spiritual vs. physical. But the divinity of Jesus is a huge deal-breaker for many people, and I’d have an incredibly hard time belong to a church that worships Jesus as God, rather than simply worshiping God the Father. Even with your comment of finding those who gather around Jesus — that gathering greatly depends on one’s definition of Jesus. I think I can find common ground with a Trinitiarian, in terms of Jesus as the Messiah, or Jesus as the Way/Way-shower. But there will be a line where a non-Trinitarian can’t go, and that’s why it will be difficult to find a physical community that one can fully participate in.
OSS,
Yes, I completely agree with what you’ve said. I too would have a difficult time feeling a part of a liberally minded church. I also feel out of place in a very traditional church. However, I could visit each and take from it that which speaks to me. I am a morally conservative person but that is about the only conservative thing about me and most conservative churches stifle me if I hang around too long. I really don’t look for a place like me, as I did when I was younger. Instead, I look for a place that places Christ at the center and also makes an effort to make everyone who enters there feel accepted. I also desire that church have an outward focus and be a proactive agent within the larger community. I am blessed to be in a church like that at present. It probably won’t last forever but I am very much enjoying it while it does. I keep my mouth shut about doctrine as much as I possibly can and try to focus on what is important to me and that is Christ living in me and through me and taking Him to a dying world.
Anyway, it takes time to learn what another believes and I learned much more about you and Jason than I knew before. I would much rather listen and find out who people are than to spend my time telling them what they should be. One thing I have learned for sure is that I am most definitely not the Holy Spirit!
I just came across your blog yesterday by way of The Naked Pastors blog. I read this post and was quite surprised as I was working on something discussing the Trinity and creeds as well.
I can agree, almost entirely, with everything you wrote in this post. Excellent one. I’m going to set about reading the rest of your journey over the next weeks. I’ve posted my take on my blog HERE. Thanks for your blog and I look forward to following it.
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