Questions = Confusion (Ma, Where’s the Grace?)

I just learned that Gracehead.com (a blog site) has erased all of my comments (and Ambree’s) from their discussions/dialogues – and anything we had to say to the prophet Timothy. I was quite shocked to see this was the case and found Gracehead.com had really ‘let their brothers/sisters down’ – let me explain my position.

This is censorship (an ideal I rather despise) at the core. I had all of my comments ‘wiped off’ the chalk board of discussion – and what were they – questions and nothing more. I never once called a single person by any rudimentary names nor did I ever question a single person’s faith in the endeavor (since I have the utmost respect for that). I questioned Timothy on some rather simple things and in the end had my faith criticized, was told my questions caused confusion, and eventually was wiped from planet Gracehead as some kind of dissenter? (along with Ambree).

What I learned to think was questions = confusion. I asked a lot of questions and raised some concerns I had with a few things Timothy said – and that was it. I didn’t agree with him and for some reason this was ‘confusing’? It wasn’t encouraging (I understand that) but does everything I disgree with have to be done with a big smile on my face? (Something a Mormon made known as she was ex-communicated – ‘there was vicousness to their niceness’). No. Sometimes I don’t agree but I don’t start hurling stones or worse – silence the other person permenantly. Things graduated from ‘questions = confusion’ to ‘questions = banned/you mean nothing to us’. Why thanks brothers and sisters in Christ, suppose you served that noble intent with a smile also?

What is the real problem for me is this is only the 2nd time I have had this done to me by anything ‘web-related’ ever. Fundamental atheists (who despise this faith and curse God) kicked me once for having an opinion…I find it amazing Gracehead is the 2nd to do so (what a luxury to be in that company). Gracehead made me feel dis-regarded – as if – anything I said did not matter. In my community this is tantamount to calling someone a ‘nobody’ (or meaningless) – and that’s what I became – all my thoughts vanished – I was no more – I became nobody. And this from people that call themselves Christians? Who needs enemies when I have perfectly good people in the faith to ‘demean’ my value and make me know my place – worthless?

In the end, the problem is what Ambree pointed out ‘Everything is ‘Yea’ and ‘Amen’ over there now–with no debate.’. Is that representative of our faith at work in our community? If so, that’s horrendously sad and does no favors to the Christ I read in the gospels (who was asked and posed questions to others – open dialogue). But if we want a world (or even an afterlife) where we all agree on everything – then we are sadly mistaken about the faith (and human race) we are a part of. If we do not have the power to overlook differences we are to be (of all people) avoided at all costs? Is God so small he has to fit into our view of him alone?

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16 thoughts on “Questions = Confusion (Ma, Where’s the Grace?)

  1. Society,

    If you are referring to my stab at a intermediary post on that thread, I didn’t mean that your questions cause confusion. I meant that I thought there was confusion in the communication between you two. I just see that happen with Christians all the time. We argue when half the time, we are saying the same thing but with different terms and words. I really wasn’t taking any side. I think your question were fine and to be expected. You should never swallow anything whole without testing what it is first. I don’t know who removed the comments but it was not a very smart move as the rest of the comments left there look pretty stupid hanging out there with no context.

    I’m not sure if you are ignoring me on purpose so this will be my last comment if there is no reply. You are free to question anything about me at any time and I hope that if you have a bone to pick with me personally, you’ll say so. If you haven’t noticed, we at GraceHead don’t exactly walk in lock-step our unity is in Christ and not theology, doctrine, philosophy, or calling. I’m sorry for any confusion I may have caused.

    Pam

  2. Gosh, y’all…I said I was through, but it’s hard getting over all this. I’m reading past posts over there and I’m seeing statements like this:

    ——————-
    by TRENT:

    08/25/05 05:06:05 pm, Categories: Background, By Trent

    GraceHead vs. LawHead 1 (done done)

    ***You know you are under LawHead teaching when the constant focus is on what we need to do.*** It is almost like you are given a pair of glasses with “do” written on one lens and “do” written on the other lens. It can be behavior or it can be about a belief system that requires agreement. With the do-do glasses you read the Bible and try emphasizing the things that might suggest that we are supposed to do something. Every page, every chapter and every verse is a chore to apply it by finding and doing what we must do.

    Before you know it you are up to your hips in do-do.

    Why is the emphasis on “doing?” Why is it man-centered religion? LawHead teaching cannot stand for anything that God is doing. They don’t want to trust God, they hunger and thirst for salvation to be up to themselves. LawHeads require activity, because they think that they will become like they act. If their behavior was just righteous enough, then God would have no choice but to recognize that LawHeads have become righteous … or so they think. They are running from God and will only trust God, when they have jumped through all the hoops that they think will make them acceptable to God. When they fail, they shrink back, because their hope is not in Christ, but in themselves.
    ——————–

    by LEN:

    03/06/07 @ 15:49

    “Spiritual Authority: The Word and the Testimony”

    “He [Timothy] certainly seems to *de-emphasize grace* and makes a great thing out of “BE A DOER OF THE WORD and NOT A HEARER ONLY.” – such a strong stand can be troubling”

    …and later in the same thread

    03/20/07 @ 23:35

    “I see that Timothy is “beyond reproach” in all matters of doctrine and truth “when he speaks as the mouthpiece of GOD, His prophet.” – Well, that *can* cause problems insofar as certain statements like, “hell is only the grave” and “all the wicked are blotted-out and simply annihiliated.” And: ***”you must keep all the Sabbaths and Feasts of the Lord…or else.”*** period. Grace or no grace.

    “Well, Timothy has a lot of important things to say, … but we must be wary and careful regarding **those who declare themselves infallible** when speaking ‘ON BEHALF OF’ THE LORD.

    Again, let us WATCH and PRAY.”
    ———————

    My very last post over there was the last quote Len made above. Suddenly, people don’t want to stand behind what they say…or so it seems. Yet everything isn’t what it seems…so I patiently wait ’till Pam comes back with an answer or an explanation is posted over there.

    I’m out…for now. πŸ˜‰

    Ambree C. πŸ˜€

  3. I’m not in charge of anything. I only contribute articles. Trent decides who contributes and who doesn’t. Len is a commenter only. I don’t know Timothy very well yet and I’m still watching. I have no problems with any of the comments you and society posted. I tried to make peace and I guess I just ended up a busy-body. That’s the only explanation I have, Ambree. I’m very sad about the hurt feelings and for any way that I have contributed to that, I’m sorry.

    Pam

  4. Oh Pam…you didn’t contribute any ill will at all…you don’t have to apologize! I thank you sincerely for being objective and patient with all the goings-on. πŸ™‚ When I referred to your answer, I was talking about what you wrote about waiting for Trent’s reply in another post here. πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚ The explanation I’m also waiting for will hopefully be posted on Gracehead.com by Trent or whoever deleted the postings. I know things will work out for the good of us who know the Lord and are called according to His purpose. πŸ™‚ Hopefully we’ll have resolution soon to this family squabble. πŸ™‚

    Love does conquer all!

    Ambree C. πŸ˜€

  5. OK, we finally know whodunit. Timothy was the one that deleted our comments–and here is his reasoning (from the Gracehead.com site)…

    —————–
    “Therefore, it is with the Lord that those who scoff fight, and it His Word they have blasphemed, not mine. So it was I, who deleted the comments, according to 2 Timothy 3:5 and 1 Timothy 6:5 (“turn away” and “withdraw thyself”)

    This site is a place to honor God and Jesus. These comments, I deleted, dishonored Him and blasphemed His Word, even to the point of calling it satanic, and even comparing it to false words others have claimed came from God in recent times past (i.e. Joseph Smith, David Koresh etc.). This is blasphemy and shall not be tolerated nor left to pollute the Holy Word of Jesus Christ, which by the way was on the issue of giving (“tithing”) and the True Church being forged in our hearts, and of Christ’s Body in case everyone has forgotten.
    And for this I will not apologize…their is no need.”
    —————-

    Trent had nothing to do with deleting the comments. It looks to me like Timothy has hijacked his site and he’s calling the shots. I asked if we have to agree with Timothy (i.e. the resident prophet) in order to keep our posts from being deleted. From reading Tim’s latest post, it looks like that may be the case. Since Trent won’t judge either way, he’s basically going with whatever this ‘prophet’ does.

    Very sad indeed 😦

    Ambree C.

  6. Hi society
    Fascinating, but not too surprising. Now you know how perplexed I was when Pastor Shuck deleted my comments because I suggested that homosexuality might not be divinely inspired. Luckily, I had saved my mild comments on a Word document. Made for a great post on my own site!

    The deletion of comments is a red flag that would require a direct and contrite reponse from “Himothy” to be resolved. If not, it becomes clear that He is seeking followers and not seeking to follow.

    Good luck and don’t forget to double-lock your doors from now on….. πŸ™‚

  7. Pam , I am not upset with you in the least (nor anyone else over there for that matter). I am raising valid concerns and I see you as a great voice of reason in the wilderness which has become that Gracehead strand (on tithig of all things – LOL).

    I enjoy the fact you come over here and leave comments and add to the convo your voice – which adds in with the rest of us and makes a united body of believers (and some athiests – lol). Again Pam, I am more grateful to your role of humility and kindness in this endeavor than most anyone involved (including myself). I think you are playing a good role here and I think your convo’s back n forth will be very beneficial.

    Thanks Pam, get to the bottom of this!

  8. I also find this quite funny, Gracehead has a blog on there called ‘Dictatorship’ – how ironic a subject like that is villified and yet practiced at the same time…kettle…black…anyone…oh you’re a sad crowd (LOL).

  9. I guess the bottom has been found and it was Timothy who removed the posts. I am still going to refrain from taking a side on this and I’m glad I haven’t alienated you. Even if you and Timothy can’t get it straight with one another, I know that it is God that is in charge and he has allowed it for His purpose, that being the work of forming Christ in each of us. None of us want to be caught following a false prophet but for some reason, God also allows them to exist along with those He sends for the good of His children. All I know to do is stick close to Jesus and follow no man but as they themselves follow Christ. None of us are responsible for the other, we each answer to God and must each look to Christ for salvation and sanctification on our own.

    Anyway, I’m just an old lady who had her tomcat murdered yesterday. I have my own issues of forgiveness and accountability to deal with as I am relatively sure I know the child who did it and it is the act of a baby serial killer. Yet, I have no concrete evidence and though I loved my kitty who was my constant companion for 14 years, I know the life of a boy is more important. I think in every conflict, we must look for the path that enables us to overcome evil with good. I’ll pray you find yours and you and Timothy reach a good resolution and you pray for me and a sadly troubled boy of 14, okay?

    Muddling through life in Christ cause I’m nothing without Him,

    Pam ;-]

  10. “we must look for the path that enables us to overcome evil with good” (Pam)

    I agree. I’ll see ya on the blog posts – I always do. Hopefully that situation with the cat and the kid gets worked out soon enough.

  11. Looks like we’re not the only ones…

    Check out this blog link below…someone else has been trying to get through to Timothy also and has gotten nowhere. This time, it’s the subject of the church worshipping on the Sabbath (Saturday)…or else!

    http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=95999729&blogID=237971975&Mytoken=57EC5693-7327-49D2-8C41DDDF0C0A2E0D1528614

    I googled the trumpetcall site (’cause I wasn’t about to read through all that gibberish) and found some quotes that prove that he’s equating his writings to the Bible, and something else quite interesting…he’s not only a self proclaimed ‘prophet’; he also claims to be an apostle too–on his way to ‘godhood’ according to the ‘voice’ he’s hearing.

    He is NOT a prophet, he is NOT an apostle. He is MISGUIDED, period. Please continue to pray for him and for those he’s deceiving.

    p.s. – if you really feel like reading, this next part is for you–the quotes from trumpetcallofgod.com

    —————–
    (Vol 6 – The Lord Will Carry You 8/13/06)

    “Timothy! Hear the word of the Lord! You are My prophet, My student, My apostle. You shall become much more…
    yea, a β€œgod” among men, for I shall share of Myself with you. I will live in you like none before. As in the days of
    Elisha, who asked of God double, even so shall My witnesses have in those days…even double times ten shall they
    receive. Of such one you are, and will become, Timothy.”
    ——————–

    (Vol 2 – Seek First Your Own Salvation, Think Not of Outward Things of Evil…Evil Has Lost Its Grip on the Redeemed 7/7/05)

    “What you seek of the end of days have I already given to My servant, John, written in the book called β€œRevelation”. I now
    also give it to Timothy, your brother, so all those who have not read that which was given to a man who was, and is, My
    apostle, may hear from a man who I also call My apostle in this day and age, and ages to come.”
    —————–

    (Vol 3 – The Will of God is Announced By His Prophets and Taught By His Apostles 10/14/05)

    “Man is given understanding of the Truth, so he may come to salvation
    through Christ. But the knowledge and understanding of that same Truth, in the
    teaching of men and the pronouncing of God’s will to the multitude, is for My apostles
    and prophets, for only they who hear the voice of God, through His Spirit, receive
    knowledge surpassing man’s understanding. Their doctrine is given as a rod by which
    all is measured, understood, and corrected, to bring even greater glory to the God of
    Heaven and earth.”
    ——————–

    (Vol 3 – Worship the Lord Your God as I Am, Not as Men Would Have You Worship)

    “To doubt the messenger is to doubt He who has sent him to you.
    Has God stopped speaking, and is His Word only to be found in His book you call
    the Bible?…Not so, My son.”
    —————–

    (Vol 2 – Let the Lord Lead; You Only Need Follow…Let Go of Your Pride 8/16/05)

    “Scott, I am well pleased that you have searched for the Truth. Read on, and you shall find it, for the Truth was given to all the
    men of God to write in a Book, and now is given once again. Read all I have given Timothy and have now given to you. Search
    the Scriptures as well…then will you have understanding.”
    —————–

    This is what Timothy is REALLY saying between all those rehashed, misquoted scriptures he likes to post. Beware of the deception!

  12. Wow, Ambree – that’s some good research you did there. I checked the link you said and it does seem like someone has real contention with his words (and his been somewhat ‘condemned’ by Timothy – on some level anyways).

    I almost think Timothy is coming from the 7th Day Adventists strand of thought – which has produced the Branch Dividians in recent times. I have no clue what to think about Timothy (having never met him) – but he does quite lawful about his ideals – in those letters. But I’ll keep looking into it and challenging the idea’s I find interesting.

    Bruced at YBMT – thanks for your insight into this issue also – I appreciate that. I am somewhat on your wavelength here also.

  13. The thing that really gets me is that Trent set up the means for printing out Timothy’s ‘letters’ in paperback and hardcopy books…this is how deep he’s into it. Basically, he’s helping spread the deception. Please continue to lift him and Timothy in your prayers.

    Ambree C. πŸ™‚

  14. Dorsey, Gracehead has sort of crumbed to Timothy’s position on things (in which there is no bending or breaking – he is a prophet – and he speaks the literal ‘words of God’). Any disagreeance with that seems to be some sort of dissension (which I cannot fully comprehend – since I know little about Timothy to see about these claims). Oh Gracehead, when will you learn – God loves us all.

    Ambree what you just wrote there, ironically enough, is very similar to the Joseph Smith story (which began with Smith and some funding to get his works printed). Now I think Timothy is not like Joseph Smith but the printing thing is similar. I don’t even know what to think of Timothy – I have a sudden weirdness when someone makes the claims he does (speaks for God).

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